soft and program: comp.lang.c++ - 26 new messages in 16 topics

comp.lang.c++
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++?hl=en

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* Gigantic Class - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/b3756783d92fd56a?hl=en
* Discount Armani Belt Bape Belt BOSS Belt Burberry Belt D&G Belt Gucci Belt
Levis Belt Prada Belt Versace Belt (www.vipchinatrade.com) - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/e99db08567ea6559?hl=en
* Looking for Core Java / C++ developers for Singapore Location (Investment
Banking Domain) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/6786ec7970ea7219?hl=en
* Design patterns - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/c99eb0b17c6ad648?hl=en
* workaround for auto_ptr<> in STL containers? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/ea539aaeae39cd19?hl=en
* Interfacing C++ and assembler code - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/79272d2bf39c62ec?hl=en
* Saving a binary file into a string - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/ddc89ddf30293133?hl=en
* numeric_limits<>::max() - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/b7edfd57e70fae1a?hl=en
* Exception Misconceptions: Exceptions are for unrecoverable errors. - 2
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http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/786cfdf0ab25866d?hl=en
* To put some articles in google - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/40d95e7a64d735e0?hl=en
* "Reusable" operator overloading for enum? - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/981ab2c7a0c2c5ff?hl=en
* How do I wirte a .hpp file? (template, friend ,class,overload )? - 1
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* Cheap Wholesale Nike Air Max 87, Max 90, Air Max LTD, Max TN Max Tailwind
Max Clssic BW (www.vipchinatrade.com) - 1 messages, 1 author
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* Outlandish Particle Periodic Table update IX - 1 messages, 1 author
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gigantic Class
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/b3756783d92fd56a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 1:00 am
From: "io_x"

"Immortal Nephi" <Immortal_Nephi@hotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:dcc957fe-3558-4f5b-a7a0-4c819a003d52@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>I consider to use either object-based programming or object-oriental
...
i find the word "private" and "protected" not useful
like the word "const".
in my code where is the problem?
--------------------------------------------

there is someone that in few line of C++ code (that runs)
can show (or better make the debugger show)
the useful of that words?

it seems to understand the word "protected" could be
useful for not make happen wrong operator overloading
or something of that, right?

thanks
--------------------------------------------

#include <iostream>
#include <list>
#include <string>
#include <cstdio>

#define P printf
using namespace std;

class A
{public:
A():a(1),b(2){}
~A(){}
int a;
int b;
};

class B : public A
{public:
B():c(3),d(4){}
~B() {}
int c;
int d;
};
--------------
a=101
b=202
c=303
d=404
e=505
f=606
g=707
h=808
i=900
j=1000

class C : public B
{public:
C():e(5),f(6){}
~C(){}
int e;
int f;
};

class D : public C
{public:
D():g(7),h(8){}
~D() {}
void Run()
{a+=100;
b+=200;
c+=300;
d+=400;
e+=500;
f+=600;
g+=700;
h+=800;
}
int g;
int h;
};

class E : public D
{public:
E():i(9),j(10){}
~E(){}
void Run()
{D::Run();
i = 900;
j = 1000;
}

void print()
{P("a=%d\n", a);
P("b=%d\n", b);
P("c=%d\n", c);
P("d=%d\n", d);
P("e=%d\n", e);
P("f=%d\n", f);

P("g=%d\n", g);
P("h=%d\n", h);
P("i=%d\n", i);
P("j=%d\n", j);
}

int i;
int j;
};

int main()
{E e; // object e is the interface
e.Run(); // Run() is available to client.
e.print();
return 0;
}

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 1:09 am
From: Michael Doubez

On 27 déc, 06:53, Immortal Nephi <Immortal_Ne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I consider to use either object-based programming or object-oriental
> programming. I am not sure to choose the correct programming
> paradigms. I start with object-based programming because I need
> encapsulation.
> I provide client the interface. The client uses it to define object
> in main() function body. They invoke object's public member
> functions. The object's public member functions do the job to process
> algorithm. All private member functions and implementation details
> are hidden.
> The base class is growing too big because I add more private member
> functions. I debug and test them to be working properly. They are
> less reusability. You will say that gigantic class is bad practice.
> Why do you think that gigantic class is truly necessary?
[snip]

You may want to lookup "One Responsibility Rule"
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki/Wiki?OneResponsibilityRule

>
> How do you solve to divide into hundreds of subclasses from one giant
> class? Inheritance is the answer,

Not necessarily. I mainly use composition.

From a design point of view, I try to keep inheritance for *extending*
functionality.

[snip code]

> My example above is object-based programming.

Is it ? In what sense ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-based

> All data members and
> member functions are grouped in only one big class through
> inheritance.
> What if you are going to say? Use object-oriental programming
> instead? Base class is the general and all derived classes are
> specialized.

As you want to use it, this is not OOP. While the wording is good,
inheritance is not taken that way (see later).

> For example, base class is the CPU's **ALL** instruction sets. It
> has internal registers as data members and pure virtual member
> function Dispatch(). Each derived class have specialized instruction
> sets and Dispatch() implementation.

Taking your example, in OOP, the base class would be a x86 processor
(with only x86 instruction set) while an inherited class would be a
specific class of x86 compatible processor (let's say with MMX
support).

It doesn't mean that all additional MMX functions must be represented
as a virtual function in the base class. Inheritance is 'MMX
processor' *reusing* code from 'x86 processor' and *extending* it.

> Why should each derived class be instanstized and data members are
> inherited from base class? You only need one instance like I
> described that giant class has one instance.

I don't understand your point here.

I think you are trying to make a big polymorphic class, redefining the
functions for implementation and end up having to instantiate the most
derived class. If it is the case, IMO you have a design problem here.

--
Michael

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/e99db08567ea6559?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Looking for Core Java / C++ developers for Singapore Location (
Investment Banking Domain)
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/6786ec7970ea7219?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 1:14 am
From: Dinesh Mani

· 3 years commercial Core Java experience designing, building and
delivering multithreaded, distributed systems (consideration will be
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· Demonstrable expertise in troubleshooting multithreaded
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· Spring, J2EE, middleware/messaging desired

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· Demonstrable track record of successful delivery

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Design patterns
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/c99eb0b17c6ad648?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 1:15 am
From: Branimir Maksimovic

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2009-12-27, Branimir Maksimovic <bmaxa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua Maurice wrote:
>>> On Dec 26, 3:01 pm, Branimir Maksimovic <bm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>>> Jonathan Lee <cho...@shaw.ca> writes:
>>>>>> But I'm having a small problem finishing it. Anyone know of a
>>>>>> pattern for the above problem?
>>>>> Sure, just implement it as a GPS.
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Problem_Solver
>>>> Hm, back in 1987. my math teacher showed us mathematical proof that
>>>> algorithm for creating algorithms can;t possibly exist.
>>>> It is based on proof that algorithm for proofs can;t possibly exits
>>>> , too...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems
>>>> That's why blue brain project is bound to fail.
>>>> Because anything which is based on algorithm cannot
>>>> be creative...
>>> Interesting implications there. Almost brings a religious context to
>>> the whole discussion. (That is, are humans "simple" chemical machines,
>>> or do we possess a "soul"?) Suffice to say, you are greatly
>>> simplifying the issues involved and jumping the gun.
>> I think that this does not have to do anything with soul.
>> Fact is that algorithm cannot think and that;s it.
>
> This is not a fact, but an open question in artificial intelligence
> research.
>
If you say so...

>> Human consciousness and intelligence does not works
>> on algorithm.
>
> Assertion without evidence.

Evidence is that in mathematic there is no algorithm to proof valid
logic formula.

>
> Quantum physicists believe in a finite state universe. If consciousness
> is embedded in a finite-state universe then it means it's part of a
> finite state machine, ergo ...

This is also assertion without proof. Fact is that set of all
valid second order logic formulas is not even recursively enumerable set.

>
> But that is not so interesting; what's more provoking is the possibility
> that consciousness could be encoded in a lot fewer states.

No one knows what is consciousness yet...

>
>> Plain fact. We can invent algorithm,
>
> Not all of us, just a small minority.

Everybody invents algorithm , that does not
have to be algorithm for computers...
For example simple algorithm to shop some
thing...

>
>> but algorithm itself can;t produce previously
>> unknown algorithm.
>
> Obviously, an algorithm whose purpose isn't algorithm invention doesn't
> invent algorithms.
>
> Genetic programming is an concrete example of algorithms inventing
> algorithms.

Genetic programming ? Could you provide example algorithm
creating algorithm, that is not in no way encoded in that algorithm?

>
>> This is mathematical fact....
>
> ROFL.

Greets

--
http://maxa.homedns.org/

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 2:36 am
From: tanix@mongo.net (tanix)

In article <hh9t05$5m3$1@news.albasani.net>, Branimir Maksimovic <bmaxa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2009-12-27, Branimir Maksimovic <bmaxa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua Maurice wrote:
>>>> On Dec 26, 3:01 pm, Branimir Maksimovic <bm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>>>> Jonathan Lee <cho...@shaw.ca> writes:
>>>>>>> But I'm having a small problem finishing it. Anyone know of a
>>>>>>> pattern for the above problem?
>>>>>> Sure, just implement it as a GPS.
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Problem_Solver
>>>>> Hm, back in 1987. my math teacher showed us mathematical proof that
>>>>> algorithm for creating algorithms can;t possibly exist.
>>>>> It is based on proof that algorithm for proofs can;t possibly exits
>>>>> ,
> too...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems
>>>>> That's why blue brain project is bound to fail.
>>>>> Because anything which is based on algorithm cannot
>>>>> be creative...
>>>> Interesting implications there. Almost brings a religious context to
>>>> the whole discussion. (That is, are humans "simple" chemical machines,
>>>> or do we possess a "soul"?) Suffice to say, you are greatly
>>>> simplifying the issues involved and jumping the gun.
>>> I think that this does not have to do anything with soul.
>>> Fact is that algorithm cannot think and that;s it.
>>
>> This is not a fact, but an open question in artificial intelligence
>> research.
>>
>If you say so...
>
>>> Human consciousness and intelligence does not works
>>> on algorithm.
>>
>> Assertion without evidence.
>
>Evidence is that in mathematic there is no algorithm to proof valid
>logic formula.
>
>>
>> Quantum physicists believe in a finite state universe. If consciousness
>> is embedded in a finite-state universe then it means it's part of a
>> finite state machine, ergo ...
>
>This is also assertion without proof. Fact is that set of all
>valid second order logic formulas is not even recursively enumerable set.
>
>
>>
>> But that is not so interesting; what's more provoking is the possibility
>> that consciousness could be encoded in a lot fewer states.
>
>No one knows what is consciousness yet...

Sorry to interfere here, but I can tell you that those
that experience it "know" what it is.

Not sure if you heard of such a thing as awareness.

Sure, as far as science goes, they do not know what consciousness is,
and it is not even in the cards. It like knowing God or Truth,
which is simply WAY out of scope of this domain.

Yes, you CAN have some taste of it.
But to know it, you have to be it, nothing less.

Hope you don't mind THAT much.

>>> Plain fact. We can invent algorithm,
>>
>> Not all of us, just a small minority.
>
>Everybody invents algorithm , that does not
>have to be algorithm for computers...
>For example simple algorithm to shop some
>thing...
>
>>
>>> but algorithm itself can;t produce previously
>>> unknown algorithm.
>>
>> Obviously, an algorithm whose purpose isn't algorithm invention doesn't
>> invent algorithms.
>>
>> Genetic programming is an concrete example of algorithms inventing
>> algorithms.
>
>Genetic programming ? Could you provide example algorithm
>creating algorithm, that is not in no way encoded in that algorithm?
>
>>
>>> This is mathematical fact....
>>
>> ROFL.
>
>?
>
>Greets

--
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: workaround for auto_ptr<> in STL containers?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/ea539aaeae39cd19?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 1:24 am
From: Michael Doubez

On 24 déc, 11:09, Christof Warlich <cwarl...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Michael Doubez wrote:
> >> In the example, I used pointer semantic to exploit polymorphism, which
> >> is fine for this simple case, but tracking deletion of objects quickly
> >> becomes difficult in more complex scenarios.
>
> > In which scenario. Your code doesn't expose how you un-register them.
>
> Registration is a one-time activity that only happens once for each new
> Shape class that is added to the framework. This is why the Template
> instances are static. Thus, unregistration is not necessary. Its only
> reason is to have a template of each Shape object to clone from.

But is a shape inherit from another (which is not the case in general
I assume, all the most if constructors are private), this means the
object will be registered twice. In the un-registration performs
destruction, you would have interesting problems ;)

From a design point of view, in this case, I would have make a class
that performs the registration such that the mechanism would be
externalized:

class ShapeRegistrer
{
ShapeRegistrer(Shape* shape, bool own_shape){
// register shape
}
~ShapeRegistrer()
{
if(own_shape) delete shape;
}
};

And you could implement the semantic you want.

> > > Registration is not even performed in all constructor.
>
> You probably misunderstood the example code: [snip]. But as I said,
> it may be rather complex when a complex container structure is needed.

I see: you wanted a prototype based system with automatic
registration.

[snip]

> > IMO there is a design issue here rather than a technical one.
>
> I don't think so, my (real) code works fine, including object deletion.
> I just thought object deletion could have been made a bit more generic.
> And using BOOST shared_ptr<> or implementing reference counting are both
> viable solutions.

I don't see how deletion could be made generic since you don't tell us
how you determine the lifetime of the object.

shared_ptr<> has the advantage that you don't have to specify it but I
thought you had a compiler version issue with boost.

--
Michael

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 1:35 am
From: Michael Doubez

On 25 déc, 13:40, James Kanze <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 24, 8:34 am, Michael Doubez <michael.dou...@free.fr> wrote:
> > On 23 déc, 20:07, Christof Warlich <cwarl...@gmx.de> wrote:
> > > I'm stuck in a rather standard situation that may therefore
> > > be best illustrated with a standard example, i.e. a graphics
> > > library offering a bunch of shapes.
> > > I want to allow the user to create shapes at _runtime_ as
> > > desired, so all my shapes are derived from an abstract Shape
> > > class, allowing me to both keep track of all the created
> > > shape objects in a list and to clone new shape objects from
> > > the available shapes depending on user input, e.g.:
> > [snip]
> > > struct Shape {
> > > virtual ~Shape() {}
> > > virtual Shape *Clone() = 0;
> > > void Register() {Templates.push_back(this);}
> > > static std::vector<Shape *> Templates;};
> > > std::vector<Shape *> Shape::Templates;
> > > struct Circle: Shape {
> > > Circle() {Register();}
> > > Circle(int radius) {std::cout << "Creating circle.\n";}
> > > Circle *Clone() {
> > > std::cout << "radius? " << std::flush;
> > > int radius;
> > > std::cin >> radius;
> > > return new Circle(radius);
> > > }
> > > static Circle Template;};
> > > Circle Circle::Template;
> > > struct Rectangle: Shape {
> > > Rectangle() {Register();}
> > > Rectangle(int height, int width) {std::cout << "Creating
> > > rectangle.\n";}
> > > Rectangle *Clone() {
> > > std::cout << "height, width? " << std::flush;
> > > int height, width;
> > > std::cin >> height >> width;
> > > return new Rectangle(height, width);
> > > }
> > > static Rectangle Template;
> > > };
> > [snip]
> > > In the example, I used pointer semantic to exploit
> > > polymorphism, which is fine for this simple case, but
> > > tracking deletion of objects quickly becomes difficult in
> > > more complex scenarios.
> > In which scenario. Your code doesn't expose how you
> > un-register them. Registration is not even performed in all
> > constructor.
>
> That, of course, is the question. In the case of a lot of GUI
> objects, lifetime is in some way related to the display.
> Destruction should occur when the containing display object is
> disposed of, and ceases to become displayable. It's a design
> issue (since destruction could in some cases result in concrete
> actions occuring; the object deregistering itself for mouse
> events, for example).
>
> Whether this is "difficult" is a matter open to discussion, but
> it's an aspect that has to be addressed, at the design level.
> (I see a containment hierarchy -- containment being used here in
> its everyday sense, and not the OO sense. And I can't see where
> the difficulty would come from.)
>
> > > Thus, I considered using std::auto_ptr<> to overcome this,
> > > but auto_ptr<> does not seem to be compatible with STL
> > > containers, where I want to keep my shapes in some sort of
> > > list.
>
> auto_ptr also doesn't have the required semantics.
>
> > > Any ideas how this (i.e. auto-deletion of unreferenced
> > > objects) could be handled in a generic way while using STL
> > > containers?
> > How do you known you should auto-delete them ? They could be
> > on the stack.
>
> That's a question of the class' semantics. I think it
> reasonable to forbid GUI types from being on the stack.

Yes.
The underlying question was "how do you know that auto_ptr<> would
have been a alternative ?"

If a container of auto_ptr<> (such has a list<> rather than a
vector<>) had been an alternative, it only means the lifetime of the
object would have been tied to the lifetime of the container (or its
presence in the container). If that's the case, I don't see from where
the "complex case" come from.

[snip]

--
Michael

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Interfacing C++ and assembler code
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/79272d2bf39c62ec?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 1:31 am
From: Branimir Maksimovic

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-12-26, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> ...
>> This is implementation of my Window class, I think, everything is clear
>> here, how you can do it in win32, unfortunately microsoft has banned
>> assembler from 64 bit environment there you can only
>> write separate assembler modules:
>
> I don't do Win32 programming, but your example makes it reasonably
> clear that they did *not* ban assembly; they simply removed the C++
> extensions for inline assembly from their compiler. Some would say
> that was a wise choice.

They say they did that because of portability. Actually, assembler
is not a problem there, rather their win32 api.
Having to write separate assembler modules forces you to write
lot of assembler, except just on places where winapi
forces you to use assembler anyway ;)
Xlib is better designed that that thing...

Greets

--
http://maxa.homedns.org/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saving a binary file into a string
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/ddc89ddf30293133?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 2:14 am
From: Dominik Schmidt

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:21:00 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku wrote:

> Can't be done in standard C++. To make an exact copy of a file requires
> platform-specific functions. You have to retrieve all of the file's
> OS-specific attributes like ownership, permissions, modification
> timestamps, and other features like ``forks'', etc.

Misunderstanding.
I don't want to copy the file header (like ownership, permissions,
whatever). I only want to copy the body of the file.
If the hash values of my original file and its copy match, I'm happy.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 5:09 am
From: "Fred Zwarts"

Dominik Schmidt wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:21:00 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>
>> Can't be done in standard C++. To make an exact copy of a file
>> requires platform-specific functions. You have to retrieve all of
>> the file's OS-specific attributes like ownership, permissions,
>> modification timestamps, and other features like ``forks'', etc.
>
> Misunderstanding.
> I don't want to copy the file header (like ownership, permissions,
> whatever). I only want to copy the body of the file.
> If the hash values of my original file and its copy match, I'm happy.

Even de separation between "body" and "meta-data" is not completely
OS independent. E.g., on some systems the separation between
"records" is part of the meta-data", whereas on others it is part
of the body.
So, even making an exact copy of the body may be OS specific.
In practice, it may work as long as you stick to one file-type on
one OS.
In today's most popular OSs, Windows and Unix/Linux,
file bodies have almost no structure at OS level. (The structure is
determined at application level.) For those OSs a copy of the
body is made very easily.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: numeric_limits<>::max()
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/b7edfd57e70fae1a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 3:16 am
From: Rolf Magnus

Hello,

I'd like to know why std::numeric_limits<>::max (and some, but not all other
values in numeric_limits) was chosen to be a function instead of just being
a constant. I would have needed it in a template argument, but can't use it
there, because it's not a constant expression.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 5:09 am
From: Naive Group User

On Dec 28, 6:16 pm, Rolf Magnus <ramag...@t-online.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to know why std::numeric_limits<>::max (and some, but not all other
> values in numeric_limits) was chosen to be a function instead of just being
> a constant. I would have needed it in a template argument, but can't use it
> there, because it's not a constant expression.

Dear Sir I have a question in atl.html the latest post I made, please
come answer, I need to learn the basic steps in that, I don't need
real life big hard software from corporation for me to join in some
team to create.
I think I begin to fall for web now and possibly long later in the
future.

About your question,
there is probably a '_max' variable that might have been implemented
as a private object for easier, safer and more efficient manipulation
later in the client code, so max is named to be used as a function. Do
you agree to that ?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 7:59 am
From: Victor Bazarov

Rolf Magnus wrote:
> I'd like to know why std::numeric_limits<>::max (and some, but not all other
> values in numeric_limits) was chosen to be a function instead of just being
> a constant.

You should post to 'comp.std.c++' then. There decisions and the
rationales behind the Standard and any of its parts are discussed. Some
folks *here* might remember how those things (functions) came to be
functions, of course, but 'c.s.c++' is more reliable.

> I would have needed it in a template argument, but can't use it
> there, because it's not a constant expression.

You may need to redesign your classes to accommodate functions there.
If you post your code and describe what you're trying to accomplish,
perhaps somebody could make a suggestion...

V
--
Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Exception Misconceptions: Exceptions are for unrecoverable errors.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/786cfdf0ab25866d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 4:04 am
From: aku ankka

On Dec 26, 12:23 am, ta...@mongo.net (tanix) wrote:
> And why do you think weakely typed languages are gaining ground?
>
> Well, because you don't have to worry about all those nasty
> things as arguments. They can be anything in run time.
> And nowdays, the power of the underlying hardware is such,
> that it no longer makes such a drastic difference whether you
> run a strongly typed, compiled language or interpret it on
> the fly, even though performance is order of magnitudes worse.
>
> You need to put things in perspective.
>
> What does it matter to me if web page renders in 100 ms.
> versus 1 ms.?

For a lot of tasks that is so true. But then there are things where
this argument doesn't work. If you have a heavy workload and budget
hardware, you will have to work on the optimization really hard. In
some workloads a good application architecture won't be any good
without razor sharp innerloop.

Think of 1080p mpeg-4 or h.264 decoding on Intel Atom; you don't have
the luxury of saying that "well hardware is fucking fast I'll just do
this decoder in Perl.

If the decoder skips frames, you suck. If you write 2% of the decoder
in assembler, for example, so that you can use instructions you know
the Atom has and tried to trick the compiler to use them in C/C++ (for
example) without success, you just say: "FUCK THIS SHIT" and get the
job done. You squeeze extra 8% of performance out of your code, and
meet the target performance (full framerate = no dropped frames and
some headroom for higher bitrate files), job well done.

If the Atom platform has GPU, you might want to write CUDA / OpenCL /
GLSL / CS / etc. code to use the graphics processor to do some last
stages of the decoding, so that you can write directly into a
texture / framebuffer object. If nothing else, the YUV-to-RGB
conversion at least can be done in the GPU. For that kind of task, you
use the langauges that you must.

But yeah, for some simple flow control logic and stuff like that, we
got practically endless CPU cycles. But as always, absolute statements
are inaccurate and misleading. Different strokes for different tasks
and all that, right sirs?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 4:57 am
From: tanix@mongo.net (tanix)

Please watch the Subject: header.
It has been modified by some fools to fragment this thread.
Right now, there are several threads that have CR/LF and blanks inserted
into subject line, which, according to NNTP standard, makes them all
different threads.

Here is the correct Subject header:
Re: Exception Misconceptions: Exceptions are for unrecoverable errors.

When you follow up on one of those screwed up threads, change
the subject as shown above.

In article
<92c247c9-31dd-40e0-9792-ab66f983cee9@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, aku ankka
<jukka@liimatta.org> wrote:
>On Dec 26, 12:23=A0am, ta...@mongo.net (tanix) wrote:
>> And why do you think weakely typed languages are gaining ground?
>>
>> Well, because you don't have to worry about all those nasty
>> things as arguments. They can be anything in run time.
>> And nowdays, the power of the underlying hardware is such,
>> that it no longer makes such a drastic difference whether you
>> run a strongly typed, compiled language or interpret it on
>> the fly, even though performance is order of magnitudes worse.
>>
>> You need to put things in perspective.
>>
>> What does it matter to me if web page renders in 100 ms.
>> versus 1 ms.?
>
>For a lot of tasks that is so true. But then there are things where
>this argument doesn't work. If you have a heavy workload and budget
>hardware, you will have to work on the optimization really hard. In
>some workloads a good application architecture won't be any good
>without razor sharp innerloop.
>
>Think of 1080p mpeg-4 or h.264 decoding on Intel Atom; you don't have
>the luxury of saying that "well hardware is fucking fast I'll just do
>this decoder in Perl.

Understood. I would not even conceiver of writing things like decoders
in perl or even Python for that matter.
:--}

>If the decoder skips frames, you suck. If you write 2% of the decoder
>in assembler, for example, so that you can use instructions you know
>the Atom has and tried to trick the compiler to use them in C/C++ (for
>example) without success, you just say: "FUCK THIS SHIT" and get the
>job done. You squeeze extra 8% of performance out of your code, and
>meet the target performance (full framerate =3D no dropped frames and
>some headroom for higher bitrate files), job well done.

No problem with that one.

>If the Atom platform has GPU, you might want to write CUDA / OpenCL /
>GLSL / CS / etc. code to use the graphics processor to do some last
>stages of the decoding, so that you can write directly into a
>texture / framebuffer object. If nothing else, the YUV-to-RGB
>conversion at least can be done in the GPU. For that kind of task, you
>use the langauges that you must.

>But yeah, for some simple flow control logic and stuff like that, we
>got practically endless CPU cycles. But as always, absolute statements
>are inaccurate and misleading. Different strokes for different tasks
>and all that, right sirs?

Sure. Why not. As long as you keep things in proper perspective
and try to squeeze some performance out of a totally screwed up code.

I have seen plenty of cases where you can get several times more
performance without trying to squeze out every cpu cycle.

In fact, I have a luxury, if I need to squeze it even further,
hey, you've got some slack, go for it.

Except it is the LAST thing I am going to do.
That means, before you try to squeze those cpu cycles out of something,
better make sure you whole architecture is already as efficient as it
gets.

--
Programmer's Goldmine collections:

http://preciseinfo.org

Tens of thousands of code examples and expert discussions on
C++, MFC, VC, ATL, STL, templates, Java, Python, Javascript,
organized by major topics of language, tools, methods, techniques.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: To put some articles in google
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/40d95e7a64d735e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Reusable" operator overloading for enum?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/981ab2c7a0c2c5ff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 5:04 am
From: "Johannes Schaub (litb)"

Balog Pal wrote:

> "nick" <nick___@fastmail.fm>
>> Marcel, your solution works perfectly. I like how it 'documents' the
>> enum as being a flag set. I'm using this for now with a few small
>> additions, but now I'm curious why people seem generally opposed to
>> macros...
>
> You will find it in all accepted standard/guideline books. The most
> serious
> roblem is that macros do not respect scope. And for many applications
> there are way better tools -- constants/enums, inline functions,
> templates... Though not for everything.
>
>> The template stuff may be a bit over my head, but here's how I
>> understand it: Saeed's solution will work, but it will overload those
>> operators for all (classes? enums?), not just the flag sets I need
>> those operators for. Johannes says I can use is_enum<ENUM_TYPE>::value
>> to fix it so it only affects (enums?) ... is that about right?
>

You first have to make sure that the type is not an integral type (just
compare it with each and every integral type), and then make sure it's not a
class type, and then test if it converts to one integral type. If that'S the
case, it must be an enum. The book "C++ templates, the complete guide" shows
a possible implementation. I'm trying to remember it here:

// don't let class types convert to the integral types
template<typename T>
struct SlurpUDC {
operator T();
};

typedef char yes[1];
typedef char no[2];

yes &int_(int);
yes &int_(unsigned int);
yes &int_(long);
yes &int_(unsigned long);
no & int_(...);
// if your compiler has it, then long long, unsigned long long

template<typename> struct intt { static bool const value = false; };
#define INTT(X) template<> struct intt<X> { static bool const value = true;
}

INTT(char);
INTT(signed char);
INTT(unsigned char);
INTT(int);
INTT(unsigned int);
INTT(long);
INTT(unsigned long);
INTT(wchar_t);
INTT(bool);
// if your compiler has it, then long long, unsigned long long, and hoping
// that i've not missed one.

C++0x introduces implementation defined integral types that may not match
any of these, but then it also has is_enum, so you don't need to write this
at all, anyway.

template<typename T>
struct is_enum {
static bool const value = sizeof int_(SlurpUDC<T>()) == sizeof(yes)
&& !intt<T>::value;
};

Notice that an enumeration type will promote to one integral type out of the
4 above. That's all i think. Now you can write

template<typename A>
typename enable_if<is_enum<A>::value, A>::type operator|(A a, A b) { ... }

Hope it helps...

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 5:16 am
From: "Johannes Schaub (litb)"

Johannes Schaub (litb) wrote:

> Balog Pal wrote:
>
>> "nick" <nick___@fastmail.fm>
>>> Marcel, your solution works perfectly. I like how it 'documents' the
>>> enum as being a flag set. I'm using this for now with a few small
>>> additions, but now I'm curious why people seem generally opposed to
>>> macros...
>>
>> You will find it in all accepted standard/guideline books. The most
>> serious
>> roblem is that macros do not respect scope. And for many applications
>> there are way better tools -- constants/enums, inline functions,
>> templates... Though not for everything.
>>
>>> The template stuff may be a bit over my head, but here's how I
>>> understand it: Saeed's solution will work, but it will overload those
>>> operators for all (classes? enums?), not just the flag sets I need
>>> those operators for. Johannes says I can use is_enum<ENUM_TYPE>::value
>>> to fix it so it only affects (enums?) ... is that about right?
>>
>
> You first have to make sure that the type is not an integral type (just
> compare it with each and every integral type), and then make sure it's not
> a class type, and then test if it converts to one integral type. If that'S
> the case, it must be an enum. The book "C++ templates, the complete guide"
> shows a possible implementation. I'm trying to remember it here:
>
> // don't let class types convert to the integral types
> template<typename T>
> struct SlurpUDC {
> operator T();
> };
>
> typedef char yes[1];
> typedef char no[2];
>
> yes &int_(int);
> yes &int_(unsigned int);
> yes &int_(long);
> yes &int_(unsigned long);
> no & int_(...);
> // if your compiler has it, then long long, unsigned long long
>
> template<typename> struct intt { static bool const value = false; };
> #define INTT(X) template<> struct intt<X> { static bool const value =
> #true;
> }
>
> INTT(char);
> INTT(signed char);
> INTT(unsigned char);
> INTT(int);
> INTT(unsigned int);
> INTT(long);
> INTT(unsigned long);
> INTT(wchar_t);
> INTT(bool);
> // if your compiler has it, then long long, unsigned long long, and hoping
> // that i've not missed one.
>
> C++0x introduces implementation defined integral types that may not match
> any of these, but then it also has is_enum, so you don't need to write
> this at all, anyway.
>
> template<typename T>
> struct is_enum {
> static bool const value = sizeof int_(SlurpUDC<T>()) == sizeof(yes)
> && !intt<T>::value;
> };
>
> Notice that an enumeration type will promote to one integral type out of
> the 4 above. That's all i think. Now you can write
>
> template<typename A>
> typename enable_if<is_enum<A>::value, A>::type operator|(A a, A b) { ... }
>
> Hope it helps...

You may need to introduce special cases in "SlurpUDC" for void, function and
array types. For each of these, there are traits though that can do the work
for you, though. Alternatively, you can instead return "operator T&()",
which i believe will only need a specialization for void.

template<typename T> struct SlurpUDC { operator T&(); };
// definitely won't convert to one of the integral types
template<> struct SlurpUDC<void> { };
template<> struct SlurpUDC<void const> { };
template<> struct SlurpUDC<void volatile> { };
template<> struct SlurpUDC<void const volatile> { };

Put a INTT(short); INTT(unsigned short); and in my tests with GCC, the above
codes work fine for regognizing an enum type.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 6:16 am
From: "Balog Pal"

"Johannes Schaub (litb)" <schaub-johannes@web.de>
>>> The template stuff may be a bit over my head, but here's how I
>>> understand it: Saeed's solution will work, but it will overload those
>>> operators for all (classes? enums?), not just the flag sets I need
>>> those operators for. Johannes says I can use is_enum<ENUM_TYPE>::value
>>> to fix it so it only affects (enums?) ... is that about right?
>>
>
> You first have to make sure that the type is not an integral type (just
> compare it with each and every integral type), and then make sure it's not
> a
> class type, and then test if it converts to one integral type.

Then "every integral type" is the weak point -- extensions like long long or
__int64 are widespread, but their knowledge is tied to compiler/version
info...

So until official tr1:: support I don;t consider it a stable point, and
avoid unless very much need some functionality and accept limitation to some
compilers.

> C++0x introduces implementation defined integral types that may not match
> any of these, but then it also has is_enum, so you don't need to write
> this
> at all, anyway.

Well, native type info is a thing we needed much. At least that remains with
the concepts scrapped. :(

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 6:49 am
From: "Johannes Schaub (litb)"

Balog Pal wrote:

> "Johannes Schaub (litb)" <schaub-johannes@web.de>
>>>> The template stuff may be a bit over my head, but here's how I
>>>> understand it: Saeed's solution will work, but it will overload those
>>>> operators for all (classes? enums?), not just the flag sets I need
>>>> those operators for. Johannes says I can use is_enum<ENUM_TYPE>::value
>>>> to fix it so it only affects (enums?) ... is that about right?
>>>
>>
>> You first have to make sure that the type is not an integral type (just
>> compare it with each and every integral type), and then make sure it's
>> not a
>> class type, and then test if it converts to one integral type.
>
> Then "every integral type" is the weak point -- extensions like long long
> or __int64 are widespread, but their knowledge is tied to compiler/version
> info...
>
> So until official tr1:: support I don;t consider it a stable point, and
> avoid unless very much need some functionality and accept limitation to
> some compilers.
>
I agree with you in principle. But I think we could test after is_enum
signals true (and remove our integral test) whether "T()" converts to
"void*": If it does, it must be an integral type, since T() then is a null
pointer constant. We will have to make sure T is not a floating point type
before.

Then i think the limitation is moved to knowing the three guaranteed
floating point types. (i think i forgot about them in is_enum).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How do I wirte a .hpp file? (template, friend ,class,overload )?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/22cc444eb98ed60d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 5:23 am
From: maigre_dragon

//example.h
template <typename T> class C;
template <typename T>
std::ostream& operator<< (std::ostream& os, const C<T>& x); //why ? Must
declare in place!?
//template<typename T> std::ostream& operator<<(std::ostream& os, const
C<char*>& x);
//template<typename T> std::ostream& operator <<(std::ostream& os, const
C<char*>& x);
//
template<typename T>
class C{
public:
//snip
protected:
friend std::ostream& operator<< <T>(std::ostream& os, const C<T>& x);
//why? Must have a <T> before the (std::ostream& os ..) !?
// friend std::ostream& operator<< <char*>(std::ostream& os ,const
C<char*>& x); //instant !? No complied! Why?
// friend std::ostream& operator<< (std::ostream& os, const C<char*>&
x); // overload !? No complied! Why?
private:
//snip
};
//
std::ostream& operator<< (std::ostream& os, const C<T>& x){ //OK! It can
define now!
//snip
}
//special template! No linked! Why?
template<> std::ostream& operator <<(std::ostream& os, const C<char*>& x){
//snip
}
//overload ! No linked! Why?
std::ostream& operator <<(std::ostream& os, const C<char*>& x){
//snip
}
//

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TOPIC: Outlandish Particle Periodic Table update IX
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== 1 of 1 ==
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