comp.lang.c++
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Today's topics:
* New facts about the pyramids: a new miracle of the Qur'an - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/b2da6723e59ed129?hl=en
* The Beauties of Islam - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/b79532a504d8f51e?hl=en
* How does the name lookup work in this case? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/f7e465d3b9e6c21f?hl=en
* Placement new[] - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/2f55035da7d1c7be?hl=en
* Getting Started with a Visual Studio C++ 2013 IDE - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/6af661da9c3466bf?hl=en
* Boost - 14 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/81738d66827a11c8?hl=en
* Address one past the end of array - is this syntax a valid C++? - 2 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/3660f2b84a4f1cb3?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: New facts about the pyramids: a new miracle of the Qur'an
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/b2da6723e59ed129?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 10:17 am
From: BV BV
New facts about the pyramids: a new miracle of the Qur'an
Last scientific discovery stated the following: French and U.S. researchers assert that the huge stones used by the Pharaohs to build the pyramids are just clay that has been heated at high temperatures...
http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/images/stories/pyr-0.jpg
Will the pyramids that we know as one of the Seven Wonders survive in the world? Did scientists find an answer to the puzzle of how the pyramids were built in ancient Egypt? Are some people still believe that the Jinn are the builders of these pyramids? Is it possible to believe that creatures from outer space built the pyramids of Egypt? ...
These speculations filled the world and lasted for several centuries, but the new discovery made by scientists from France and America will change the scientists` look forever. It will also give a simple scientific explanation to the mystery of building the pyramids, but more odd is that this mystery has been in the Qur'an fourteen centuries ago!!!
It was believed that the pharaohs have carved the stones but the question here is: How come all the stones are so identical that you cannot find a distance between one stone and another? And where are the equipments and chisels that were used in carving those stones? Until now, they have not been found? This discovery confirms that the scientists were wrong when they thought that the pyramids were built of stones. The nearest answer to logic and truth is to say that the civilization of the pharaohs was built on the clay!!
http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/images/stories/pyr-1.jpg
This is a picture from top of Cheops the Great ` pyramid, as we can notice this pyramid was the highest building in the world with a height up to 146 meters. Millions of stones were used in the construction: each stone weighs several tons. It is an enormous work that gives evidence to the powers the Pharaohs reached before 4500 years ago.
New scientific facts
One of the scientific facts that the great pyramid with the height of 146 meters was the highest building in the world for the last 4500 years and continued until the nineteenth century, The new theory proposed by French Professor Joseph Davidovits, the director of Geopolymer Institute asserts that the pyramids were built mainly of mud and that clay was used as a mean to move the stones on special railway.
The research suggests that the mud and other materials were taken from the Nile`s soil and these materials were put together in tight stone molds .Then they were heated at a high temperature, leading to the interaction of these materials and forming them into stones-like volcanoes stones, which were formed millions of years ago. Scientist Davidovits affirms that the stones which were used to build the pyramids were mainly from limestone, clay and water. The tests made by using Nanotechnology (the branch of engineering that deals with things smaller than 100 nanometers) proved the existence of large quantities of water in these rocks; such quantities do not exist in natural stones.
Furthermore,there is also consistency in the internal structure of stones which confirms that it is unreasonable that these stones were brought, then were carved in this way. The most realistic possibility is that they poured the clay in molds to make identical stones just as today as we pour plastic tools in templates so all the pieces are quite equal and similar.
Electronic microscope was used to analyze samples of the pyramids stones. The result was closer to the opinion of Prof. Davidovits and the quartz crystals appeared clearly as a result of heating the mud. He stated that we don`t have in the nature like these stones which his confirms they were made by the Pharaohs. The analysis by Mini E scale indicated the presence of silicon dioxide too. This is another proof that the stones are not natural.
http://kaheel7.com/userimages/pyramids_02.JPG
The picture shows Professor Michel Barsoum standing next to the Great Pyramid. He stress that these stones were poured into molds of clay! This what he proved in his researches after results of long experiments that these stones are not natural. Pro. Michel Barsoum confirmed after Electronic microscope analysis that they are a result of a quick interaction between clay, limestone and water at high temperatures.
Davidovits famous book entitled "Ils ont bati les pyramides" ,published in France in 2002, has resolved all problems and puzzles which were told about the way that the pyramids were built. Moreover, he put a simple geometric construction mechanism of mud. It was very convincing to many researchers in this field of science. Some researches emphasized that furnaces or stoves were used in ancient times to make ceramics and statues. The common use of fire was to build status of clay, mixed with metals and natural materials. After that, they lit a fire until the statue solidifies and takes the shape of real rocks. Many civilizations used the heated clay for making stones, statues and tools. All researches confirmed the this method used by the pharaohs in high buildings such as pyramids.
They made wooden rails that went round the pyramid in a spiral way like the grapes tabernacle which grows around itself and ascends to the top.
Other researches reach the same result
Other analysis using X-ray proved existence of air bubbles in the samples taken from the pyramids which were formed during the pouring stones from mud and evaporation of water from mud. Furthermore, these bubbles do not exist in natural stones and this adds new evidence that the stones are made of clay and limestone not older than 4700 years.
Mario Collepardi, an Italian Prof. studied the architecture of the pyramids, emphasized that the Pharaohs brought the limestone dust available a lot in their area, mixed it with normal soil. Then they added water from the river Nile and lit fire to a temperature up to 900 degrees Celsius. This heat gave the stone strength and a shape similar to natural rocks.
The new idea does not cost a lot of effort because workers will not carry and raise any stones, all they have to do is to make the templates in which they pour mud and transfer mud from the ground and raise them in small containers. Each worker carries a container with mud to fill the templates. Then comes the process of lighting fire until the stone is shaped and stayed in place making sure by this way that there are no spaces between the stone and the other. Using this method helped in keeping the pyramids safe for thousands of years.
http://kaheel7.com/userimages/pyramids_03.JPG
The picture shows two adjacent stones of the pyramid's stones. We can notice the small oval cavity between them which is referred to by the arrow. It is a proof that the stones had been poured from mud in the rock template because this cavity was formed during casting stones, not as a result of erosion. It is originally out of these stones.
The Scientific fact corresponds with the Quran
After all these facts, we can reach to this result, which is: the technique used in the Age of the Pharaohs to build massive buildings such as pyramids, was mainly using the normal mud available near the River Nile. Then mixing it with water, placing it in templates and finally lighting the fire until it solidifies and stones are shaped the way we see today.
This technique remained hidden as a secret until 1981, when that scientist put his theory. Then in 2006, other scientists proved the validity of the theory, beyond any doubt, by laboratory analysis, this technique was entirely unknown at the time of Quran. But what does the Quran say? Let`s my brothers and sisters consider and praise Allah, Almighty.
After Pharaoh has become an oppressor and declared himself as a God of Egypt!! What did he say to his people, consider this:"Fir'aun (Pharaoh) said: "O chiefs! I know not that you have an ilâh (a god) other than me."( AlQassas : 38). To that extreme extent, his challenge and arrogance reached. However, the Pharaoh did not stop, he wanted to challenge God`s power and build a high monument in order to climb it to see who is Allah Almighty. Therefore, the Pharaoh wanted to prove to his people, the ones who were like him, that Moses (peace be upon him) is not honest, and that the Pharaoh is the only God of the universe!!
The pharaoh asked Haman, his deputy and partner, to build a huge monument to prove to the people that God does not exist. Here Pharaoh resorted to the technique used at that time in construction which was lighting fire on stones in order to pour the needed stones for the monument. The Pharaoh said after that: "So kindle for me (a fire), O Hâmân, to bake (bricks out of) clay, and set up for me a Sarh (a lofty tower, or palace) in order that I may look at (or look for) the Ilâh (God) of Mûsâ (Moses); and verily, I think that he [Mûsâ (Moses)] is one of the liars."( AlQassas : 38).
But what was the result? Look and think of the fate of the Pharaoh, Haman and their soldiers, the Almighty says: (And he and his hosts were arrogant in the land, without right, and they thought that they would never return to us * So We seized him and his hosts, and we threw them all into the sea (and drowned them). So behold (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) what was the end of the Zâlimûn [wrong-doers, polytheists and those who disbelieved in the Oneness of their Lord (Allâh), or rejected the advice of His Messenger Mûsâ (Moses) (peace be upon him]. .( AlQassas : 39-40).
One might ask, is the monument the same as the Pyramid? We say it is not often. The monument is high as a tower or high lighthouse used in order to ascend to high altitude. Allah punished the Pharaoh and destroyed him. Allah Almighty also destroyed his monument to be a verse for the ones who comes after him. This monument that he build to challenge God was destroyed and we do not find it anywhere. The story of the Pharaoh and his black fate was told by Allah in this verse: "And we destroyed completely all the great works and buildings which Fir'aun (Pharaoh) and his people erected." ( Al Aaraf: 137 ). Already some scattered stones were found buried by sand during thousands of years.
http://kaheel7.com/userimages/pyramids_04444.JPG
The picture shows one of the three pyramids at Giza with the top still covered by a layer of mud. This layer is from the same stone used in building; which indicates that clay was fully used in building the pyramids. This " Pharaonic technology" was perhap a secret of the strength of the pharaonic civilization and kept on as a secret not mentioned even in manuscripts and inscriptions. Therefore, the Qur'an tells us about one of the hidden secrets that cannot be known only to Allah, and this is strong evidence that the Koran is the book of Allah!
The miracle
1. This researcher and other dozens of researchers confirm that clay is the building material of the pyramids, and these buildings are the highest buildings, known from ancient history to the modern era. All these facts confirm that the Quran verse is true and consistent with science and one of the verses of the scientific miracles.
2. The technology of making stones from mud using heat, was not known at the time of revelation of the Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not have any knowledge about the way of building the pyramids. Accordingly, this verse is to be considered a great scientific discovery as it linked between the mud and heat as a means of building in the Age of the Pharaohs. On the account of this fact, it led us to know that construction at that time was based on this method. This scientific fact has not been recognized only a few years ago by using very advanced technologies!
3. This miracle is an evidence of full consistency between the Qur'an and science and truthfulness of Allah Almighty when He said about his book: "Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein many a contradiction."(Al Nisaa:82) The verse is a response to the atheists who claim that the Quran was written by Mohammed (peace be upon him), as how can he predict such a matter as the pyramids are far from his time and he never see it before!
4. he certain facts confirm that the Greatest Pyramid in Giza or the so-called pyramid of Cheops was the highest building on earth for 4500 years. It was the Pharaohs famous buildings or monuments. Allah destroyed the monuments and buildings built by the Pharaoh, who claimed divinity, whereas pyramids which were built by other Pharaohs were saved by Allah and kept as a witness of truthfulness of the Book of Allah, the Almighty!
5. In the verse "And we destroyed completely all the great works and buildings which Fir'aun (Pharaoh) and his people erected." Look at the word (erected) which indicates the technique used in ancient Egypt to put the rocks on top of each other! In Arabic language we find the word in "Al Qamoos Al Muhid" dictionary: (erected) build an arbor, (erected the grape arbor: raise the plant on wood, (erected) the house: build the house, put the roof. The result: the word (erected) refers to putting the wood to raise stones up. That what scientists and researchers say today: the Pharaohs used the wooden rails to raise mud by climbing in a spiral way around the building just like a pergola, which wrap around the pillar upon which it is based on in a spiral way.
http://kaheel7.com/userimages/pyramids_05.JPG
The drawing shows the way of building the pyramids through the placing wooden rails in a spiral way in order to transfer mud to make stones, wrapping around the pyramid up just like the bowers grape that wrap around and climb. Allah Almighty used the word (erected) to indicate the geometrical mechanism of constructing buildings and monuments. Mostly destroyed by Allah, leaving only the pyramids to be evidence of the truthfulness of the Qur'an
6. This miracle is an answer to those who claim that our greatest prophet (peace be upon him) took the Sciences and stories from the Bible or from Monk 'Buhira" or the priest "Waraqa bin Nawfal", because the technical construction by mud was not mentioned in the holly Book "AlTorah".On the contrary, any reader of "Torah" comes to a conclusion that stones were brought in from places far from the Pyramids and were natural stones not related to mud. This is what prevented some western scientists from recognition of this scientific discovery because it contradicts the holly book.
7. The research presented by Professor Davidovits invalidated all biblical (The holly book of Torah) claims that thousands of workers have worked for many years in these pyramids. It also invalidates the idea that stones were brought from distant places to build the pyramids. Therefore, we are looking at physical evidence that the Torah story contradicts science.
It means that there is a big difference between the Holly book of Torah and scientific facts, and this shows that the current copy of Torah is written by humans, not from Allah Almighty. This fact was confirmed by the Quran: " Do they not then consider the Qur'ân carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein many a contradiction. (Al Nisaa: 82). It also indicates that the Quran is from Allah Almighty because it always matches science!
Some questions to those who are skeptics of message of Islam
1. How did Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him know about the presence of high buildings Pharaohs build in their time? And if he has derived his information from the Torah, he would have come to the same information mentioned in the Torah. Where did he come up with the idea of architecture at all?
2. How was the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) aware that technique of clay was used in construction in the Ages of Pharaohs? And what made him talk such historical and metaphysical issues as it would not provide anything to him in his massage. If the Prophet wrote the Quran (as some people claim) it would have been better that he tells them about Arab Legends which are the closet to people to accept his massage!
3. How did Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) know that the Pharaoh Claim divinity? And that he build monuments? And how did he learn that these monuments have been destroyed? And only the remains are left as an evidence of their existence in the past. Allah Almighty says: (And those are their dwellings, which have not been inhabited after them except a little. And verily! We have been the inheritors.)(Al Qassas :58)
4. Is it possible If Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) wrote the Quran to say such a thing:
"Do they not travel in the land, and see what was the end of those before them? They were superior to them in strength, and they tilled the earth and populated it in greater numbers than these (pagans) have done: and there came to them their Messengers with clear proofs. Surely, Allâh wronged them not, but they used to wrong themselves." (Al Room: 9) Allah Almighty makes contemplating through these pyramids and other ancient monuments remain a mean of realizing Allah`s power and fate of arrogant people who challenge Allah.
These facts are physical proofs reflected in Allah`s holly book that shows the truthfulness of this book, one might say: The theory of building the pyramids by mud had not become a scientific fact, so how do you explain the Quran with such theory, and I say: this theory did not come from a nowhere but it was a result of scientific and laboratory analysis and does not contradict reality. It matches the Quran. However the science develops, it will not discover facts, and only the ones which match the Quran, in order these facts are means of seeing miracles of Allah in his book. He said: "We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Qur'ân) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things? (Fusselat: 53.).
--------------------
References:
1- http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080508/news_1c08pyramid.html
2- http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080508/news_1c08pyramid.html
3- http://www.davidovits.info/78/davidovits-pyramid-theory-worldwide
4- http://www.geopolymer.org/news/cutting-edge-analysis-proves-davidovits'-pyramid-theory
5- http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2480751,00.html
6- http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/01/science/01pyramid.html?ref=science
7- http://www.welt.de/data/2006/11/30/1129891.html
8- http://www.livescience.com/history/070518_bts_barsoum_pyramids.html
9- http://www.piramidasunca.ba/en/index.php/STONE-BLOCKS-FROM-THE-BOSNIAN-PYRAMIDS-ANALIZED-RESULT-ANCIENT-CONCRETE.html
10- http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/12/08/pyramids_arc.html?category=archaeology&guid=20061208120000
11- http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg19225812.900-concrete-evidence-in-gizas-pyramids.html
12- Herodotus, The Histories, Oxford University Press, 1998
13- Davidovits, J. and Morris, M, The Pyramids, Dorset Press, 1988
14- Pyramids were built with concrete rather than rocks, scientists claim, http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article656117.ece, December 1, 2006
15- Concrete evidence in Giza's pyramids, http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg19225812.900-concrete-evidence-in-gizas-pyramids.html
16- http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/12/08/pyramids_arc.html?category=archaeology&guid=20061208120000
17- http://www.materials.drexel.edu/Pyramids/
18- MIT Class Explores Controversial Pyramid Theory With Scale Model, http://www.azom.com/default.asp, April 3rd,2008.
19- http://www.romanconcrete.com/index.htm
20- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061209122918.htm
21- The Enigma of the Construction of the Giza Pyramids Solved?, Scientific British Laboratory, Daresbury, SRS Synchrotron Radiation Source, 2004.
22- http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/04/22/a_new_angle_on_pyramids/?page=1
23- http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/are-pyramids-made-out-of-concrete-1
24- http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/pyramids-2-the-evidences
25- Barsoum, M. W., Ganguly, A. and Hug, G. Microstructural Evidence of Reconstituted Limestone Blocks in the Great Pyramids of Egypt, Journal of the American Ceramic Society 89 (12), 2006.
http://kaheel7.com/eng/index.php/unseen-miracles/442-new-facts-about-the-pyramids-a-new-miracle-of-the-quran
Thank you
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Beauties of Islam
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/b79532a504d8f51e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 11:40 am
From: Gerhard Fiedler
woodbrian77@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:24:41 PM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
>> It is well-known that the pilgrim fathers left England because of
>> "religious persecution" - what is less well-known is that it was the
>> sect left England because /they/ were not allowed to persecute
>> others.
>
> Your understanding is incorrect.
Maybe not. To this day, many of their followers try to force others to
do as they see fit, for example by basing political discussions on
religious arguments. Which for one can't work (political discussions, if
they should serve any purpose, are meant to get to a compromise between
all involved, and this by definition makes religious arguments a no-no),
and for another is probably against the basics of the constitution (for
that same reason).
Gerhard
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: How does the name lookup work in this case?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/f7e465d3b9e6c21f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 11:52 am
From: Peter
Getting back to the main point of the thread...
as Alf pointed out, since g++ and Visual C++
respond to my code differently, then at least
one of them handles it wrong. Any opinions
on which (if any) is correct?
Here are the g++ versions I tested the code with online:
http://www.compileonline.com/compile_cpp11_online.php (g++ 4.7.2, in C++11 compliant mode)
http://www.compileonline.com/compile_cpp_online.php (g++ 4.8.1)
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 1:35 pm
From: Öö Tiib
On Friday, 31 January 2014 21:52:57 UTC+2, Peter wrote:
> Getting back to the main point of the thread...
> as Alf pointed out, since g++ and Visual C++
> respond to my code differently, then at least
> one of them handles it wrong. Any opinions
> on which (if any) is correct?
My opinion is that usage of unqualified name 'Foo' after doing
'using namespace Foo;' that contains other 'Foo' is ambiguous.
So even when one of the '::Foo::Foo::x' or '::Foo::x' is not
available it should not compile. I'm not sure how gcc looks it
up. Perhaps it tries to be overly smart somewhere.
I tried with clang, it did also reject the code.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Placement new[]
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/2f55035da7d1c7be?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 12:36 pm
From: Joe The Smoe
On 30/01/2014 17:38, Thomas Richter wrote:
> Am 30.01.2014 14:03, schrieb Joe The Smoe:
[...]
Hello Thomas,
>
> Couple of problems with this code, namely the alignment might not be
> right. But if operator new[] and operator delete[] are implemented in
> the same way, then *that* part should be correct.
after having carefully looked at your implementation --- thank you very
much! :) --- put apart the lack of alignment --- thanks again! --- I did
not understood why your implementation should be working while mine was
not, seen the many similarities... Well, it was evident... I was using
delete in place of delete[] for the array... I should have seen it
before posting... I feel ashamed... However I'm happy having asked as
else I would have missed the alignment consideration :-)
> I'm a bit too lazy to
> try your code with g++, but I'll just share mine if you want to take it.
No need to try it, it works as expected... if you don't mix new[] with
delete and new with delete[]... as I did :)
By the way I was wondering why you forbade the normal new[]() and new()
operators putting them as private:
It could be possible to allow them by setting the value of the pointer
on class Environ in the MemoryHolder data to NULL. Memory allocation
could be then done by operator ::new char[size]. Then, to known how to
delete/delete[] the data it would just require to check whether the
mh_pEnviron field is NULL (use ::delete[]) or not (release calling the
Environ object as actually done), no?
>
> Here's an implementation that works with g++: What I show here is the
> class you need to inherit from to be able to "pool allocate" any
> derived classes.
>
[...]
>
> The construction works fine with g++, and VS, though a couple of bugs
> were present that required me to keep the size in the allocation itself
> because the compiler provided value was, for some versions of the
> compilers, incorrect.
Here, I cannot figure out why you need the size to release a memory
block... but that's probably because of the class Environ
implementation, right?
[...]
>
> does what it should do, including arrays (tested). If it does not,
> you're mixing new[] with delete, or new with delete[].
Yes, I was.
>
> HTHH,
> Thomas
>
Thanks again,
Joe.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Getting Started with a Visual Studio C++ 2013 IDE
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/6af661da9c3466bf?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 8:28 pm
From: "W. eWatson"
I understand C++. What I'm looking for is how one operates the IDE
provided in VS C++ Desktop. What programming I've done usually does not
include a sophisticated IDE. I see FILE, EDIT,VIEW, DEBUG, etc. along
the top of the IDE. I'd like more details on these items. I would
suspect somewhere there's an explanation of them. Most manuals describe
them in the first 10 pages. Does a tutorial or manual that explains them
exist? It would be nice to see some examples of building a program and
compiling libraries for it.
BTW, I've spent a lot of time today Googling VS introductions to IDEs,
but they never sync with the VS C++ 2013 product I have.
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 9:16 pm
From: Robert Wessel
On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 20:28:55 -0800, "W. eWatson"
<wolftracks@invalid.com> wrote:
>I understand C++. What I'm looking for is how one operates the IDE
>provided in VS C++ Desktop. What programming I've done usually does not
>include a sophisticated IDE. I see FILE, EDIT,VIEW, DEBUG, etc. along
>the top of the IDE. I'd like more details on these items. I would
>suspect somewhere there's an explanation of them. Most manuals describe
>them in the first 10 pages. Does a tutorial or manual that explains them
>exist? It would be nice to see some examples of building a program and
>compiling libraries for it.
>
>BTW, I've spent a lot of time today Googling VS introductions to IDEs,
>but they never sync with the VS C++ 2013 product I have.
While this is OT for the group, MS has lots of tutorials and samples.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj620919.aspx looks like just
what you're looking for.
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 11:09 am
From: "W. eWatson"
On 1/31/2014 9:16 PM, Robert Wessel wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 20:28:55 -0800, "W. eWatson"
> <wolftracks@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> I understand C++. What I'm looking for is how one operates the IDE
>> provided in VS C++ Desktop. What programming I've done usually does not
>> include a sophisticated IDE. I see FILE, EDIT,VIEW, DEBUG, etc. along
>> the top of the IDE. I'd like more details on these items. I would
>> suspect somewhere there's an explanation of them. Most manuals describe
>> them in the first 10 pages. Does a tutorial or manual that explains them
>> exist? It would be nice to see some examples of building a program and
>> compiling libraries for it.
>>
>> BTW, I've spent a lot of time today Googling VS introductions to IDEs,
>> but they never sync with the VS C++ 2013 product I have.
>
>
> While this is OT for the group, MS has lots of tutorials and samples.
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj620919.aspx looks like just
> what you're looking for.
>
Is there a NG for my question?
Been at that link, but it didn't help. I think there are just too many
variety of editions for Visual Studio.
I just installed 2010, and see there's a video in it for Beginner
Developers. Cleverly the title is for the 2008 Express Edition. A little
examination here shows me this isn't going to help me. Sigh!
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 12:19 pm
From: Tobias Müller
"W. eWatson" <wolftracks@invalid.com> wrote:
> Been at that link, but it didn't help. I think there are just too many
> variety of editions for Visual Studio.
>
> I just installed 2010, and see there's a video in it for Beginner
> Developers. Cleverly the title is for the 2008 Express Edition. A little
> examination here shows me this isn't going to help me. Sigh!
From VS 2005 to VS 2010 there are only minor differences regarding the user
interface. Especially when it comes to the basic concepts. Most notable
improvements in VS 2010 are IMO the much better intellisense (on-the-fly
analysis for code completion, refactoring and navigation) and the profiler
that is available not only in team edition.
But for the first steps that probably not so relevant.
Tobi
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 2:42 pm
From: Victor Bazarov
On 2/1/2014 3:19 PM, Tobias Müller wrote:
> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks@invalid.com> wrote:
>> Been at that link, but it didn't help. I think there are just too many
>> variety of editions for Visual Studio.
>>
>> I just installed 2010, and see there's a video in it for Beginner
>> Developers. Cleverly the title is for the 2008 Express Edition. A little
>> examination here shows me this isn't going to help me. Sigh!
>
> From VS 2005 to VS 2010 there are only minor differences regarding the user
> interface. Especially when it comes to the basic concepts. Most notable
> improvements in VS 2010 are IMO the much better intellisense (on-the-fly
> analysis for code completion, refactoring and navigation) and the profiler
> that is available not only in team edition.
> But for the first steps that probably not so relevant.
To answer a question in another post, no, there is no NG for it (not an
active one anyway).
I recommend getting a book. Something in line with "Visual Studio for
Dummies". They are usually well written (not that I've read any, but I
heard many people's praises) without condescension and full of easy
explanations on how to accomplish some simple tasks, which should give
the OP at least some handle on the product.
As with any other complex tool, ease comes with practice. So, start by
doing what the book says, and then try repeating those (usually simple)
steps with some variations.
V
--
I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boost
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/81738d66827a11c8?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 6:02 am
From: Dombo
Op 26-Jan-14 23:46, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
> On Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:34:18 PM UTC-6, Ian Collins wrote:
>> woodbrian77@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you disagree with my claim that C++ is most important
>>> language for services?
>>
>> While C++ is an important language for services, it has to inter-operate
>> with servers and clients written in other languages.
>
> If you had said --
>
> it sometimes has to inter-operate
>
> I'd agree. I know of a few companies that write C++
> programs that communicate with each other. That's
> not exactly unheard of.
>
> And as I said I'm open to working on adding support
> for another language, but I don't think that language
> will be Java. Python or C# is more likely.
When communicating with a web server chances are it is written in Java.
Python has its own serialization facilities as does .NET, as does Java.
Focusing on one or a very few languages puts your solution at a
disadvantage compared to the more established alternatives. If you want
people to convince to use your solution over the well known, proven,
well supported and industry standard solutions (SOAP, JSON, BSON...etc),
you have to provide some compelling reason, i.e. a unique selling point,
which as of yet I haven't seen in spite of your frequent postings
promoting your library. I think you need to do a bit more market
research before investing in reinventing the wheel.
== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 8:16 am
From: woodbrian77@gmail.com
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 8:02:27 AM UTC-6, Dombo wrote:
> Op 26-Jan-14 23:46, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
>
> > On Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:34:18 PM UTC-6, Ian Collins wrote:
>
> >> woodbrian77@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> > And as I said I'm open to working on adding support
> > for another language, but I don't think that language
> > will be Java. Python or C# is more likely.
>
> When communicating with a web server chances are it is written in Java.
> Python has its own serialization facilities as does .NET, as does Java.
> Focusing on one or a very few languages puts your solution at a
> disadvantage compared to the more established alternatives. If you want
> people to convince to use your solution over the well known, proven,
> well supported and industry standard solutions (SOAP, JSON, BSON...etc),
> you have to provide some compelling reason, i.e. a unique selling point,
> which as of yet I haven't seen in spite of your frequent postings
> promoting your library. I think you need to do a bit more market
> research before investing in reinventing the wheel.
I'm pioneering on line code generation. These people
http://springfuse.com
are also working on on line code generation, but
they use Java. Most of what they say in terms of
marketing their service is also true of the C++
Middleware Writer.
10 years ago there was some doubt about the
path, but I don't think there's any doubt today.
On line code generation is here to stay.
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - "Imitation is the sincerest
form of flattery."
http://webEbenezer.net
== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 8:52 am
From: Dombo
Op 01-Feb-14 17:16, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
> On Saturday, February 1, 2014 8:02:27 AM UTC-6, Dombo wrote:
>> Op 26-Jan-14 23:46, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
>>
>>> On Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:34:18 PM UTC-6, Ian Collins wrote:
>>
>>>> woodbrian77@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> And as I said I'm open to working on adding support
>>> for another language, but I don't think that language
>>> will be Java. Python or C# is more likely.
>>
>> When communicating with a web server chances are it is written in Java.
>> Python has its own serialization facilities as does .NET, as does Java.
>> Focusing on one or a very few languages puts your solution at a
>> disadvantage compared to the more established alternatives. If you want
>> people to convince to use your solution over the well known, proven,
>> well supported and industry standard solutions (SOAP, JSON, BSON...etc),
>> you have to provide some compelling reason, i.e. a unique selling point,
>> which as of yet I haven't seen in spite of your frequent postings
>> promoting your library. I think you need to do a bit more market
>> research before investing in reinventing the wheel.
>
> I'm pioneering on line code generation. These people
> http://springfuse.com are also working on on line code
> generation, but they use Java.
I'd hardly call that pioneering.
> Most of what they say in terms of
> marketing their service is also true of the C++
> Middleware Writer.
Springfuse makes rather generic claims, the kind of marketing speak one
expects for just about any software development tool. And above all it
still not answers the questions how your product differentiates itself
from competing, well established, solutions.
> 10 years ago there was some doubt about the
> path, but I don't think there's any doubt today.
> On line code generation is here to stay.
Ask yourself what is the benefit of online code generation for the
client. If it is the only option for code generation it would be a
considered to be a serious disadvantage by many because:
1. It undesirable to make your build process dependant on some external
service not under your own control;
2. But more importantly...what if the company that provides the online
service goes out of business or just decides to pull the plug?
== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 9:52 am
From: Jorgen Grahn
On Fri, 2014-01-31, woodbrian77@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 27, 2014 5:55:11 AM UTC-6, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>>
>> Personally I suspect a (possibly gzipped) text stream is good enough
>> almost all the time.
>
> What about streaming video?
No. But it seems to me that's a different problem compared to the
ones discussed so far.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 10:34 am
From: woodbrian77@gmail.com
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:52:21 AM UTC-6, Dombo wrote:
> Op 01-Feb-14 17:16, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
>
> > On Saturday, February 1, 2014 8:02:27 AM UTC-6, Dombo wrote:
>
> >>
> I'd hardly call that pioneering.
>
>
> > Most of what they say in terms of
> > marketing their service is also true of the C++
> > Middleware Writer.
>
> Springfuse makes rather generic claims, the kind of marketing speak one
> expects for just about any software development tool. And above all it
> still not answers the questions how your product differentiates itself
> from competing, well established, solutions.
>
There are more specifics here
http://webEbenezer.net/comparison.html
.
>
> > 10 years ago there was some doubt about the
> > path, but I don't think there's any doubt today.
> > On line code generation is here to stay.
>
>
> Ask yourself what is the benefit of online code generation for the
> client.
Longevity is an important factor. Users need
tools that will outlast their projects. Unlike
most of our competitors, we have a business model
that's based on on line code generation. "A fool
with a plan can outsmart a genius with no plan."
T. Boone Pickens
I get the feeling some are surprised by how a
small company like Ebenezer Enterprises is
able to outsmart bigger comptetitors.
Recall the story of David against Goliath.
David, using a new technology, took down
the more established Goliath. Is on line
code generation the new slingshot?
> If it is the only option for code generation it would be a
> considered to be a serious disadvantage by many because:
> 1. It undesirable to make your build process dependant on some external
> service not under your own control;
> 2. But more importantly...what if the company that provides the online
> service goes out of business or just decides to pull the plug?
Sorry if you don't like it, but this is the
way things are headed. Ebenezer Enterprises
is in better shape today than ever. This is
from our website:
I'm willing to donate 15 hours/week for six months
to a project that uses the C++ Middleware Writer.
Also I'll pay $500 and give a $1,000 investment in
Ebenezer Enterprises to someone who helps me find
someone interested in this. I'll pay the $500
after working for four months on the project.
Ebenezer Enteprises works to reward investments to
3 times their original amount. So the investment
would result in between $0 and $3,000, depending
on how things go for the company.
----------------------------------------------
We make that offer to help people overcome fears
they may have about working with a small company
to provide a service. We'll hold your hand and
help you build the software you want to build.
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 10:54 am
From: woodbrian77@gmail.com
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 12:34:29 PM UTC-6, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:52:21 AM UTC-6, Dombo wrote:
> > Ask yourself what is the benefit of online code generation for the
> > client.
>
> Longevity is an important factor.
Another factor is simplifying the development
process. Some competitors expect you to
download huge libraries and maintain them.
"Oops. Sorry, there's a bug in such and such.
Please patch your install ..."
With on line code generation, we maintain the
installs (versions) for you. So there's no more
wondering if there's a fix you don't know about
or if your installation has been corrupted due
to a patching error or incompetence.
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us.
http://webEbenezer.net
== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 10:57 am
From: Dombo
Op 01-Feb-14 19:34, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
> On Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:52:21 AM UTC-6, Dombo wrote:
>>> 10 years ago there was some doubt about the
>>> path, but I don't think there's any doubt today.
>>> On line code generation is here to stay.
>>
>>
>> Ask yourself what is the benefit of online code generation for the
>> client.
>
> Longevity is an important factor. Users need
> tools that will outlast their projects. Unlike
> most of our competitors, we have a business model
> that's based on on line code generation.
Longevity of the tools is exactly the reason is why relying on some
online tool is generally not a good idea for the reasons I stated in my
previous post. Again: what is the benefit of online code generation for
the client?
> I get the feeling some are surprised by how a
> small company like Ebenezer Enterprises is
> able to outsmart bigger comptetitors.
> Recall the story of David against Goliath.
> David, using a new technology, took down
> the more established Goliath. Is on line
> code generation the new slingshot?
I've seen very little to suggest that you are outsmarting anyone.
>> If it is the only option for code generation it would be a
>> considered to be a serious disadvantage by many because:
>> 1. It undesirable to make your build process dependant on some external
>> service not under your own control;
>> 2. But more importantly...what if the company that provides the online
>> service goes out of business or just decides to pull the plug?
>
> Sorry if you don't like it, but this is the
> way things are headed. Ebenezer Enterprises
> is in better shape today than ever. This is
> from our website:
>
> I'm willing to donate 15 hours/week for six months
> to a project that uses the C++ Middleware Writer.
>
> Also I'll pay $500 and give a $1,000 investment in
> Ebenezer Enterprises to someone who helps me find
> someone interested in this. I'll pay the $500
> after working for four months on the project.
> Ebenezer Enteprises works to reward investments to
> 3 times their original amount. So the investment
> would result in between $0 and $3,000, depending
> on how things go for the company.
That sounds more like a desperate company to me than a company in good
shape. Add to that an amateurish website. Not the kind of company you
would want to rely on to provide some online service.
== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 11:27 am
From: Dombo
Op 01-Feb-14 19:54, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
> On Saturday, February 1, 2014 12:34:29 PM UTC-6, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:52:21 AM UTC-6, Dombo wrote:
>
>>> Ask yourself what is the benefit of online code generation for the
>>> client.
>>
>> Longevity is an important factor.
>
> Another factor is simplifying the development
> process. Some competitors expect you to
> download huge libraries and maintain them.
> "Oops. Sorry, there's a bug in such and such.
> Please patch your install ..."
At least the client has the option to decided whether or not to install
the patch or not. There is always a risk with updates, updates not only
fix bugs but quite often also introduce new bugs. If you are not
affected by the bugs that are supposedly fixed and your project is in a
critical phase, one might want to postpone the update.
In pretty much every place I've worked it would be absolutely
unacceptable for development tools to automatically update themselves.
> With on line code generation, we maintain the
> installs (versions) for you. So there's no more
> wondering if there's a fix you don't know about
> or if your installation has been corrupted due
> to a patching error or incompetence.
In other words your client can't be sure they are able to generate
exactly the same code as before, which is quite important consideration
with configuration management. And gets even worse when the external
update accidentally introduced a bug. In that case code that worked
before can suddenly stop working, and there is nothing your client can
do about it since there is no way for you client to rollback to a
previous version of your tool.
== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 11:36 am
From: Ian Collins
Dombo wrote:
> Op 01-Feb-14 19:54, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
>>
>> Another factor is simplifying the development
>> process. Some competitors expect you to
>> download huge libraries and maintain them.
>> "Oops. Sorry, there's a bug in such and such.
>> Please patch your install ..."
>
> At least the client has the option to decided whether or not to install
> the patch or not. There is always a risk with updates, updates not only
> fix bugs but quite often also introduce new bugs. If you are not
> affected by the bugs that are supposedly fixed and your project is in a
> critical phase, one might want to postpone the update.
>
> In pretty much every place I've worked it would be absolutely
> unacceptable for development tools to automatically update themselves.
>
>> With on line code generation, we maintain the
>> installs (versions) for you. So there's no more
>> wondering if there's a fix you don't know about
>> or if your installation has been corrupted due
>> to a patching error or incompetence.
>
> In other words your client can't be sure they are able to generate
> exactly the same code as before, which is quite important consideration
> with configuration management. And gets even worse when the external
> update accidentally introduced a bug. In that case code that worked
> before can suddenly stop working, and there is nothing your client can
> do about it since there is no way for you client to rollback to a
> previous version of your tool.
That would be a killer for any software that has to undergo any form of
certification process. Even where certification isn't a requirement,
customers often stick with a specific release and require support and
updates to that release. Just about every project I've worked on
required the tools to be archived to enable us to recreate a specific
drop when required.
--
Ian Collins
== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 12:22 pm
From: woodbrian77@gmail.com
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 1:36:25 PM UTC-6, Ian Collins wrote:
> Dombo wrote:
>
> > In other words your client can't be sure they are able to generate
> > exactly the same code as before, which is quite important consideration
> > with configuration management. And gets even worse when the external
> > update accidentally introduced a bug. In that case code that worked
> > before can suddenly stop working, and there is nothing your client can
> > do about it since there is no way for you client to rollback to a
> > previous version of your tool.
>
> That would be a killer for any software that has to undergo any form of
> certification process. Even where certification isn't a requirement,
> customers often stick with a specific release and require support and
> updates to that release. Just about every project I've worked on
> required the tools to be archived to enable us to recreate a specific
> drop when required.
>
I think you're missing the plural I used in installs and
versions. There's only one version available at this
time, but if needed we'll support more than one version.
It looks like Springfuse only supports one version also
at this time...
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 1:11 pm
From: woodbrian77@gmail.com
I'm not aware of any search related companies that
have opened up their search process. Well, I guess
DuckduckOn Saturday, February 1, 2014 12:57:21 PM UTC-6, Dombo wrote:
> Op 01-Feb-14 19:34, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
>
> >
>
> > Longevity is an important factor. Users need
> > tools that will outlast their projects. Unlike
> > most of our competitors, we have a business model
> > that's based on on line code generation.
>
> Longevity of the tools is exactly the reason is why relying on some
> online tool is generally not a good idea for the reasons I stated in my
> previous post. Again: what is the benefit of online code generation for
> the client?
>
Are you using an open source search engine?
>
>
> > I get the feeling some are surprised by how a
> > small company like Ebenezer Enterprises is
> > able to outsmart bigger comptetitors.
> > Recall the story of David against Goliath.
> > David, using a new technology, took down
> > the more established Goliath. Is on line
> > code generation the new slingshot?
>
> I've seen very little to suggest that you are outsmarting anyone.
>
I'm not sure where you've looked.
Some "successful" companies like Southwest Airlines
and Facebook have had to learn the hard way that
the languages they were using didn't scale well.
I've been using C++ from the beginning. Work done
on the foundation may not be easy to notice, but it
provides for the long term future of the company.
Feel free to examine the software here
http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html
> >
>
> > Sorry if you don't like it, but this is the
> > way things are headed. Ebenezer Enterprises
> > is in better shape today than ever. This is
> > from our website:
> >
>
> > I'm willing to donate 15 hours/week for six months
> > to a project that uses the C++ Middleware Writer.
> >
> > Also I'll pay $500 and give a $1,000 investment in
> > Ebenezer Enterprises to someone who helps me find
> > someone interested in this. I'll pay the $500
> > after working for four months on the project.
> > Ebenezer Enteprises works to reward investments to
> > 3 times their original amount. So the investment
> > would result in between $0 and $3,000, depending
> > on how things go for the company.
>
> That sounds more like a desperate company to me than a company in good
> shape. Add to that an amateurish website. Not the kind of company you
> would want to rely on to provide some online service.
I acknowledge the website could be better and the
documentation also. I've been asking for ideas on
how to improve that. If you have some specific
ideas on that, please let me know.
Beggars can't be choosers as far as who they are going
to rely on. If you are drowning and someone offers
to help you, are you going to turn them down if they
don't have a lifeguard certification?
I'm willing to help a company get their mojo back.
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - John 3:16.
http://webEbenezer.net
== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 1:52 pm
From: woodbrian77@gmail.com
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 1:27:51 PM UTC-6, Dombo wrote:
> Op 01-Feb-14 19:54, woodbrian77@gmail.com schreef:
>
> > On Saturday, February 1, 2014 12:34:29 PM UTC-6, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> At least the client has the option to decided whether or not to install
> the patch or not. There is always a risk with updates, updates not only
> fix bugs but quite often also introduce new bugs. If you are not
> affected by the bugs that are supposedly fixed and your project is in a
> critical phase, one might want to postpone the update.
I'm afraid the lack of choice here is due to "leaders"
like Bill Gates and Obama. "If you like your plan,
you can keep your plan." "If you like your doctor,
you can keep your doctor." They lied and now your
options aren't what you wish they were? Shouldn't
have voted for Obama... Do you find a better option
than what I'm offering? As we get more users we'll
have more resources to improve the service.
>
> In pretty much every place I've worked it would be absolutely
> unacceptable for development tools to automatically update themselves.
>
> > With on line code generation, we maintain the
> > installs (versions) for you. So there's no more
> > wondering if there's a fix you don't know about
> > or if your installation has been corrupted due
> > to a patching error or incompetence.
>
>
> In other words your client can't be sure they are able to generate
> exactly the same code as before, which is quite important consideration
> with configuration management. And gets even worse when the external
> update accidentally introduced a bug. In that case code that worked
> before can suddenly stop working, and there is nothing your client can
> do about it since there is no way for you client to rollback to a
> previous version of your tool.
I think you missed my talking about installs and versions
plural. If there's support for it, multiple versions will
be available.
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - "To G-d be the glory."
http://webEbenezer.net
== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 2:20 pm
From: Ian Collins
woodbrian77@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 1, 2014 1:36:25 PM UTC-6, Ian Collins wrote:
>> Dombo wrote:
>>
>>> In other words your client can't be sure they are able to generate
>>> exactly the same code as before, which is quite important consideration
>>> with configuration management. And gets even worse when the external
>>> update accidentally introduced a bug. In that case code that worked
>>> before can suddenly stop working, and there is nothing your client can
>>> do about it since there is no way for you client to rollback to a
>>> previous version of your tool.
>>
>> That would be a killer for any software that has to undergo any form of
>> certification process. Even where certification isn't a requirement,
>> customers often stick with a specific release and require support and
>> updates to that release. Just about every project I've worked on
>> required the tools to be archived to enable us to recreate a specific
>> drop when required.
>>
>
> I think you're missing the plural I used in installs and
> versions. There's only one version available at this
> time, but if needed we'll support more than one version.
> It looks like Springfuse only supports one version also
> at this time...
That still wouldn't help in the situations I'm familiar with. A
technique one of my clients uses is to build their release software in a
VM and then snapshot and archive the machine. They need to know that
they can recreate any release in a reliable, reproducible, manner. You
would have to tie yourself up in all sorts of legal knots to meet their
requirements...
--
Ian Collins
== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 2:31 pm
From: woodbrian77@gmail.com
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 4:20:15 PM UTC-6, Ian Collins wrote:
> That still wouldn't help in the situations I'm familiar with. A
> technique one of my clients uses is to build their release software in a
> VM and then snapshot and archive the machine. They need to know that
> they can recreate any release in a reliable, reproducible, manner. You
> would have to tie yourself up in all sorts of legal knots to meet their
> requirements...
>
They could store code generated by the C++ Middleware
Writer if they wanted to.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Address one past the end of array - is this syntax a valid C++?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/3660f2b84a4f1cb3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 9:23 am
From: Peter
Assume we have an array:
int arr[5];
It's legal to refer to address arr + 5, but, of course, illegal to refer to element arr[5] as it's not part of the array. However, arr + n is equivalent to &arr[n]. My question is: does this equivalence also hold for an edge case of
n = 5 (or, generally, n equal to number of elements of array)?
While there's nothing wrong with arr + 5, &arr[5] looks highly suspicious: it looks like in the first step arr[5] is evaluated (which introduces an undefined behaviour) which would mean the expression as a whole is undefined. Does the equivalence still hold in this special case?
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 2:36 pm
From: Victor Bazarov
On 2/1/2014 12:23 PM, Peter wrote:
> Assume we have an array:
>
> int arr[5];
>
> It's legal to refer to address arr + 5, but, of course, illegal to
> refer to element arr[5] as it's not part of the array. However, arr +
> n is equivalent to &arr[n]. My question is: does this equivalence
> also hold for an edge case of n = 5 (or, generally, n equal to number
> of elements of array)?
>
> While there's nothing wrong with arr + 5, &arr[5] looks highly
> suspicious: it looks like in the first step arr[5] is evaluated
> (which introduces an undefined behaviour) which would mean the
> expression as a whole is undefined. Does the equivalence still hold
> in this special case?
I would not be surprised at the validity of this after I've learned that
initializing a reference by dereferencing a null pointer is now legal.
*nullptr creates a special kind of reference, and the only useful
operation you can do with it is to take its address, which in turn
should give you null, as I understand it. So, using the same logic, the
expression a[n] is the same as *(a+n), which is to give you a reference
to a non-existing element (one beyond the last in the array) and with
that reference the only valid operation is to take its address.
According to the precedence rules, &arr[5] is evaluated as &(*(arr+5)),
which is OK (if you subscribe to the invalid reference idea and the
validity of applying the 'address of' operator to it).
V
--
I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
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