soft and program: comp.lang.c++ - 25 new messages in 17 topics

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* cin's input buffer - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/ee233797d52d183d?hl=en
* A subtle access issue (may be advanced :-) ) - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/cfa68deb52dc50f5?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: cin's input buffer
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/ee233797d52d183d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 12:14 am
From: Juha Nieminen

aegis wrote:
> cin >> a; cin >> b; cin >> c;

Btw, what's wrong with "cin >> a >> b >> c;"?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 4:35 am
From: James Kanze

On Aug 30, 6:32 am, aegis <ae...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> Consider the following:

> #include <iostream>
> #include <string>

> using namespace std;

> int main(void)
> {
> int a, b, c;
> cin >> a; cin >> b; cin >> c;
> string s;
> getline(cin, s);
> return 0;
> }

> is there a newline hanging around cin's input buffer
> for getline to accept and return immediately?

Probably. If you're reading from a console, most systems won't
pass the program anything until there is a new line, so the code
can't read the value for c until a new line is entered following
it. And of course, reading an int doesn't remove that new line.

The function getline doesn't necessarily look for a new line of
text; it can't know that you've already read characters from the
current line, so it simply reads from where you are up to (and
including) the next new line character.

--
James Kanze (GABI Software) email:james.kanze@gmail.com
Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, +33 (0)1 30 23 00 34

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 5:01 am
From: aegis

On Aug 30, 6:35 am, James Kanze <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 30, 6:32 am, aegis <ae...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
>
> > Consider the following:
> > #include <iostream>
> > #include <string>
> > using namespace std;
> > int main(void)
> > {
> > int a, b, c;
> > cin >> a; cin >> b; cin >> c;
> > string s;
> > getline(cin, s);
> > return 0;
> > }
> > is there a newline hanging around cin's input buffer
> > for getline to accept and return immediately?
>
> Probably. If you're reading from a console, most systems won't
> pass the program anything until there is a new line, so the code
> can't read the value for c until a new line is entered following
> it. And of course, reading an int doesn't remove that new line.
>
> The function getline doesn't necessarily look for a new line of
> text; it can't know that you've already read characters from the
> current line, so it simply reads from where you are up to (and
> including) the next new line character.
>

Is there a preferred/standard way of discarding cin's input buffer?

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 5:06 am
From: aegis

On Aug 30, 7:01 am, aegis <ae...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> On Aug 30, 6:35 am, James Kanze <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 30, 6:32 am, aegis <ae...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
>
> > > Consider the following:
> > > #include <iostream>
> > > #include <string>
> > > using namespace std;
> > > int main(void)
> > > {
> > > int a, b, c;
> > > cin >> a; cin >> b; cin >> c;
> > > string s;
> > > getline(cin, s);
> > > return 0;
> > > }
> > > is there a newline hanging around cin's input buffer
> > > for getline to accept and return immediately?
>
> > Probably. If you're reading from a console, most systems won't
> > pass the program anything until there is a new line, so the code
> > can't read the value for c until a new line is entered following
> > it. And of course, reading an int doesn't remove that new line.
>
> > The function getline doesn't necessarily look for a new line of
> > text; it can't know that you've already read characters from the
> > current line, so it simply reads from where you are up to (and
> > including) the next new line character.
>
> Is there a preferred/standard way of discarding cin's input buffer?

Seems I want cin.ignore(). Thanks for the responses!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A subtle access issue (may be advanced :-) )
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/cfa68deb52dc50f5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 1:19 am
From: ld

On 30 août, 04:42, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
> * ld:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 29 août, 09:11, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
> >> The following code compiles as-is with g++ and Comeau Online, but not when then
> >> the commented lines are uncommented:
>
> >> <code>
> >> #include <stddef.h>
>
> >> template< class T > T* create();
>
> >> class Base
> >> {
> >> template< class T > friend T* create();
> >> private:
> >> static void* operator new( size_t size )
> >> {
> >> return ::operator new( size );
> >> }
>
> >> // static void operator delete( void* p )
> >> // {
> >> // ::operator delete( p );
> >> // }
>
> >> protected:
> >> virtual ~Base() {}
>
> >> };
>
> >> class Derived
> >> : public Base
> >> {
> >> public:
> >> Derived() {}
> >> virtual ~Derived() {}
>
> >> };
>
> >> template< class T >
> >> T* create() { return new T; }
>
> >> int main()
> >> {
> >> create<Derived>();}
>
> >> </code>
>
> >> With uncommenting the commented code both compilers complain that the Derived
> >> destructor can't access Base::operator delete.
>
> >> They don't complain that the Derived constructor can't access Base::operator new.
>
> >> I can understand the lack of complaint for the constructor: the constructor
> >> doesn't need to access the allocation function, which is invoked by the new
> >> expression which is in the context of the create function which has access.
>
> >> I don't understand the complaint for the destructor. The new expression has to
> >> potentially deallocate, if an expression is thrown. But it manages well to use
> >> the allocation function, so why can't it also use the deallocation function?
>
> >> In short, why this different treatment?
>
> >> It almost seems as if the standard supports an implementation technique where
> >> the call to the deallocation function is made directly from *within* the most
> >> derived class' destructor?
>
> [snip explanation of machine code level -- I don't think it should influence
> access!]
>
> > BTW, why don't you declare Base::operator delete as protected instead
> > of private since its role is more or less the same as the destructor
> > ~Base() ?
>
> That's what I had to do, but the reason for the "private:" is to express in the
> language that a derived class' code can't do 'delete this'.
>
> With protected access it can. :-(
>
>
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > ld.
>
> Thanks :-) Although I disagree (very strongly) that access rules should be
> affected by possible implementation techniques for the compiler.

I fully agree that it should not influence the access. I was just
giving a possible explanation why this pre-standard behavior may
happened. In particular it does not follow ISO/IEC 14882:1998(E) (Free
Store) 12.5 §8

"Access to the deallocation function is checked statically. Hence,
even though a different one might actually be executed, the statically
visible deallocation function is required to be accessible." [example
follow].

Therefore, the compiler should clearly report a diagnostic, whatever
implementation it uses.

Cheers,

ld.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 1:46 am
From: "Alf P. Steinbach"

* Gil:
> On Aug 30, 1:07 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
>> * Gil:
>>
>>> On Aug 29, 3:11 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
>>>> I don't understand the complaint for the destructor.
>>> At the point of definition of a virtual destructor, non-placement
>>> operator delete shall be looked up in the scope of the destructor's
>>> class
>>> and if found shall be accessible and unambiguous.
>> Where does it say that?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Alf
>
> ISO/IEC 14882:2003(E) 12.4.11, sorry it's late.

Thank you.

I think this "be accessible" wording in §12.4/11, together with corresponding
wording in §12.5/4 about the accessibility of the *dynamically* chosen
deallocation function, constitutes a double defect in the standard.

Defect (A), the most obvious, is that §12.5/4 as I see it contains a
self-contradiction, while defect (B) goes to the rationale.

For defect (A), self-contradiction, §12.5/4 says that "if the delete-expression
is used to deallocate a class whose static type has a virtual destructor, the
deallocation function is the one found by the lookup in the definition of the
dynamic type's virtual destructor. ... If the result of the lookup is ambiguous
or inaccessible ... the program is ill-formed".

If the word "inaccessible" here talks about whether the delete expression itself
has access to the dynamically chosen deallocation function, then any program
doing 'delete p' where p is of static type Base* and the dynamic type of *p is
Derived, where Derived has a protected or private deallocation function, and the
delete expression isn't in a context with access to such things in Derived,
would be ill-formed. Which is clearly not the case. So that interpretation is
not tenable.

On the other hand, if the word "inaccessible" here talks about whether the
dynamic type's destructor has access to the dynamically chosen deallocation
function, then a delete expression would be valid as long as that's the case,
even if the delete expression itself does not have access (for nothing is then
said about that) to the deallocation function of the static type. Which clearly
isn't the case either. So that interpretation is not tenable.

Since neither possible choice of which function it is that needs access yields a
tenable interpretation, perhaps "the lookup" isn't meant to refer to the lookup
described earlier in the paragraph, but rather to a lookup in the static type of *p.

For defect (B), about the rationale of §12.4/11 (destructor needs access):

(1) nowhere else is static accessibility restricted by what function might be
dynamically selected for invocation,

(2) the restriction apparently serves no useful purpose except as an unnatural
and easily circumvented means of creating a "final" class, and

(3) the restriction disallows at least one useful expression of a restriction on
derived classes, namely restricting use of 'delete this' as in the code I
presented at the start of the thread.

Regarding (1), that this rule is contrary to the spirit of C++, consider the
inconsistency when compared to the situation for destructors:

class Base { virtual ~Base() {} };

class Derived
{
private:
virtual ~Derived() {}
public:
static Derived* newInstance() { return new Derived(); }
};

int main()
{
Base* p = Derived::newInstance();
delete p; // OK, even though no access to dynamically selected destructor.
}

Why should the delete not be OK just because the dynamically selected destructor
is inaccessible to the delete expression? That would be nonsense. What matters
wrt. accessibility, here and elsewhere in C++, is the static typing.

And so it's IMO also nonsense to have such a requirement for the dynamically
selected deallocation function. Especially considering that what it requires is
not even direct accessibility, but indirect accessibility: that the dynamically
selected deallocation function must be accessible to the dynamically selected
destructor. Of course that indirection is the only way to express something so
absurd as the dynamic choice having to be statically "accessible" in a sense.

Regarding (2), no apparent useful purpose, at least not any very evident one,
what C++ constructs would be permitted if this rule were replaced with plain
static accessibility (as one has everywhere else in C++)?

One could then write such dangerous code (note: irony) as

class Base1 { virtual ~Base1() {} };

class Base2
{
private:
void* operator new( size_t size ) { ... }
void operator delete( void* p ) { ... }
public:
virtual ~Base2() {}
static Base1* newBase1();
};

class Derived: public Base1, public Base2
{}; // AIUI not allowed, has virtual destructor but inaccessible op delete.

Base1* Base2::newBase1() { return new Derived; }

int main()
{
Base1* p = Base2::newBase1();
delete p;
}

The "trouble" here being that the delete dynamically invokes a statically
inaccessible deallocation function, just as -- but of course allowed in
current C++, since it's the normal rule! -- in the first example the delete
dynamically invokes a statically inaccessible destructor function.

Perhaps someone can come up with some purpose that isn't of the sort "be
inconsistent with the rest of C++", but currently I fail to see it.

Regarding (3), that the language's restriction disallows useful expressions of
programmer-selected restrictions on derived classes, the original code in this
thread is an example.

Cheers,

- Alf

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 1:55 am
From: "Alf P. Steinbach"

* ld:
> On 30 août, 04:42, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
>> * ld:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 29 août, 09:11, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
>>>> The following code compiles as-is with g++ and Comeau Online, but not when then
>>>> the commented lines are uncommented:
>>>> <code>
>>>> #include <stddef.h>
>>>> template< class T > T* create();
>>>> class Base
>>>> {
>>>> template< class T > friend T* create();
>>>> private:
>>>> static void* operator new( size_t size )
>>>> {
>>>> return ::operator new( size );
>>>> }
>>>> // static void operator delete( void* p )
>>>> // {
>>>> // ::operator delete( p );
>>>> // }
>>>> protected:
>>>> virtual ~Base() {}
>>>> };
>>>> class Derived
>>>> : public Base
>>>> {
>>>> public:
>>>> Derived() {}
>>>> virtual ~Derived() {}
>>>> };
>>>> template< class T >
>>>> T* create() { return new T; }
>>>> int main()
>>>> {
>>>> create<Derived>();}
>>>> </code>
>>>> With uncommenting the commented code both compilers complain that the Derived
>>>> destructor can't access Base::operator delete.
>>>> They don't complain that the Derived constructor can't access Base::operator new.
>>>> I can understand the lack of complaint for the constructor: the constructor
>>>> doesn't need to access the allocation function, which is invoked by the new
>>>> expression which is in the context of the create function which has access.
>>>> I don't understand the complaint for the destructor. The new expression has to
>>>> potentially deallocate, if an expression is thrown. But it manages well to use
>>>> the allocation function, so why can't it also use the deallocation function?
>>>> In short, why this different treatment?
>>>> It almost seems as if the standard supports an implementation technique where
>>>> the call to the deallocation function is made directly from *within* the most
>>>> derived class' destructor?
>> [snip explanation of machine code level -- I don't think it should influence
>> access!]
>>
>>> BTW, why don't you declare Base::operator delete as protected instead
>>> of private since its role is more or less the same as the destructor
>>> ~Base() ?
>> That's what I had to do, but the reason for the "private:" is to express in the
>> language that a derived class' code can't do 'delete this'.
>>
>> With protected access it can. :-(
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> ld.
>> Thanks :-) Although I disagree (very strongly) that access rules should be
>> affected by possible implementation techniques for the compiler.
>
> I fully agree that it should not influence the access. I was just
> giving a possible explanation why this pre-standard behavior may
> happened. In particular it does not follow ISO/IEC 14882:1998(E) (Free
> Store) 12.5 §8
>
> "Access to the deallocation function is checked statically. Hence,
> even though a different one might actually be executed, the statically
> visible deallocation function is required to be accessible." [example
> follow].
>
> Therefore, the compiler should clearly report a diagnostic, whatever
> implementation it uses.
>
> Cheers,
>
> ld.

Thanks, but in the given code the new expression does have static access, since
it's in a friend function. It's just the dynamically chosen destructor that
doesn't have access. And I think that rule of the standard is not as it should
be, possibly not even reflecting original intent.

But another thanks: I just posted a response else-thread where I pointed out
what I thought was a double defect in the standard.

Your observation (I didn't see that /8, which *retroactively* modifies the
meaning of /4!) means that I was wrong about one of them, the A in that article,
but I maintain the B of that article -- it's just very wrong to have static
access restricted by a possible dynamic choice, it's not that way anywhere else.

Cheers,

- Alf

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 4:39 am
From: James Kanze

On Aug 29, 11:25 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
> * James Kanze:
> > On Aug 29, 9:11 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
> >> The following code compiles as-is with g++ and Comeau
> >> Online, but not when then the commented lines are
> >> uncommented:

> >> <code>
> >> #include <stddef.h>

> >> template< class T > T* create();

> >> class Base
> >> {
> >> template< class T > friend T* create();
> >> private:
> >> static void* operator new( size_t size )
> >> {
> >> return ::operator new( size );
> >> }

> >> // static void operator delete( void* p )
> >> // {
> >> // ::operator delete( p );
> >> // }

> >> protected:
> >> virtual ~Base() {}
> >> };

> >> class Derived
> >> : public Base
> >> {
> >> public:
> >> Derived() {}
> >> virtual ~Derived() {}
> >> };

> >> template< class T >
> >> T* create() { return new T; }

> >> int main()
> >> {
> >> create<Derived>();
> >> }
> >> </code>

> >> With uncommenting the commented code both compilers
> >> complain that the Derived destructor can't access
> >> Base::operator delete.

> > Correctly (more or less).

> As you write further down, you don't *know* that.

I do with regards to the new expression. The operator delete
must be accessible in the context of the new expression.

> And neither do I. :-)

> But one might suspect that the destructor needing access is
> correct wrt. to the standard, and that the standard therefore
> ideally should be corrected, for access has nothing to do with
> machine code.

I agree in principle; if that's what the standard says (and I
seem to recall that it is), then it's pretty ugly. On the other
hand, the authors of the standard do consider implementation
issues, and generally dislike requiring something that can't
reasonably be implemented.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 5:17 am
From: "Alf P. Steinbach"

* James Kanze:
> On Aug 29, 11:25 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
>> * James Kanze:
>>> On Aug 29, 9:11 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al...@start.no> wrote:
>>>> The following code compiles as-is with g++ and Comeau
>>>> Online, but not when then the commented lines are
>>>> uncommented:
>
>>>> <code>
>>>> #include <stddef.h>
>
>>>> template< class T > T* create();
>
>>>> class Base
>>>> {
>>>> template< class T > friend T* create();
>>>> private:
>>>> static void* operator new( size_t size )
>>>> {
>>>> return ::operator new( size );
>>>> }
>
>>>> // static void operator delete( void* p )
>>>> // {
>>>> // ::operator delete( p );
>>>> // }
>
>>>> protected:
>>>> virtual ~Base() {}
>>>> };
>
>>>> class Derived
>>>> : public Base
>>>> {
>>>> public:
>>>> Derived() {}
>>>> virtual ~Derived() {}
>>>> };
>
>>>> template< class T >
>>>> T* create() { return new T; }
>
>>>> int main()
>>>> {
>>>> create<Derived>();
>>>> }
>>>> </code>
>
>>>> With uncommenting the commented code both compilers
>>>> complain that the Derived destructor can't access
>>>> Base::operator delete.
>
>>> Correctly (more or less).
>
>> As you write further down, you don't *know* that.
>
> I do with regards to the new expression. The operator delete
> must be accessible in the context of the new expression.

The operator delete is accessible in the context of the new expression, since
that expression appears in a friend function.

>> And neither do I. :-)
>
>> But one might suspect that the destructor needing access is
>> correct wrt. to the standard, and that the standard therefore
>> ideally should be corrected, for access has nothing to do with
>> machine code.
>
> I agree in principle; if that's what the standard says (and I
> seem to recall that it is), then it's pretty ugly. On the other
> hand, the authors of the standard do consider implementation
> issues, and generally dislike requiring something that can't
> reasonably be implemented.

MSVC has no problem compiling the code with commented block uncommented.

It's very easy to implement.

Cheers,

- Alf

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 2:25 am
From: "Fraser Ross"

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Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 3:21 am
From: ящдуп

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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 4:20 am
From: Francesco

On 29 Ago, 19:16, bolega <gnuist...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 29, 8:53 am, A.L. <alewa...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:10:59 -0700, JustBoo <B...@boowho.com> wrote:
> > >bolega wrote:
> > >> This braggart admits that he had to put this code in TWO books and
> > >> visit it twice to be explained. I am puting the excerpt from pp2-4
> > >> of this book and the C code.
> > >[...]
>
> > >Well, witness yet another way, boy and girls, to market a book. We'll
> > >be seeing a lot of it from now on I'm sure. Meh. Enjoy.
>
> > Very good way to market a book. Something criticized on c.l.l. must be
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>
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> > A.L.
>
> please dont derail my thread, BUT, you ordered the wrong book. The one
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Just out of curiosity bolega, how could you know which book A.L.
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Regards,
Francesco

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 9:32 am
From: cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter)

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:30:45 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<rjh@see.sig.invalid> wrote:

>In <h7cc1a$e6g$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>, Chris McDonald wrote:

<snip>

>In the current case, bolega (unknown name, to me at least) is slagging
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>accuse it of being nilgewater as well.

Just so. The two styles are quite distinct. Generally speaking
those who use the internet for ranting have quite individual and
distinct styles. Thus Nilges is clearly well educated and well
read, using many post modern and progressive tropes along with
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read and less literate.

Incidentally, in my opinion the term "troll" isn't appropriate
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excited. These ranters have a different agenda.

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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 30 2009 9:18 am
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On Aug 29, 8:35 pm, Digital Puer <digital_p...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> What I am really trying to do is to test if
> characters in a std::string are alphanumeric
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> the following:

I think <locale> offers isalnum() to do just that. I haven't used it
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#include <locale>
#include <string.

// Not sure on the constructor argument here...
std::locale latin1("en_US.ISO8859-1");
std::string s;

...

for (size_t i = 0; i < s.length(); ++i) {
if (std::isalnum(s[i], latin1)) { ... }
}

Anyone know more?

--Jonathan

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