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Today's topics:
* ANNOUNCE: libmsgque-4.1, PLMK-1.2, NHI1-0.3 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/542e60fdd14a90e7?hl=en
* Exception Misconceptions - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/cbcc4582e3daf8ee?hl=en
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* prefix increment operator and side-effects - 2 messages, 2 authors
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* Exception Misconceptions: Exceptions are for unrecoverable errors. - 3
messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/786cfdf0ab25866d?hl=en
* is it possible to create the functionality of a virtual template method? - 1
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* Q: Free compiler for 64 bit Windows 7? - 4 messages, 3 authors
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* Merry Christmas! - 1 messages, 1 author
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* ===Welcome to comp.lang.c++! Read this first. - 1 messages, 1 author
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* Locale to Unicode Codepoint mapping? - 2 messages, 2 authors
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* workaround for auto_ptr<> in STL containers? - 2 messages, 2 authors
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* C++ jobs down another 40% - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/6718a9cd2f3ecdbf?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ANNOUNCE: libmsgque-4.1, PLMK-1.2, NHI1-0.3
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/542e60fdd14a90e7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 6:18 am
From: Andreas Otto
Dear User,
ANNOUNCE: Christmas-Present-Release
====================================
libmsgque: Application-Server-Toolkit for
C, C++, JAVA, C#, TCL, PERL, PYTHON, VB.NET
PLMK: Programming-Language-Microkernel
NHI1: Non-Human-Intelligence #1
SUMMARY
=======
libmsgque: add the new technology called:
>> bi-directional filter <<
to extend the functionality of an existing client/server
application without implementation details available.
> http://nhi1.berlios.de/theLink/filter.htm
NHI1: add new subproject "theGuard" including the new
tool "aguard" to encrypt an existing "libmsgaue" client/
server link.
> http://openfacts2.berlios.de/wikien/index.php/
BerliosProject:NHI1_-_TheGuard
LINKS
=====
libmsgque:
> http://nhi1.berlios.de/theLink/index.htm
NHI1:
> http://nhi1.berlios.de/
DOWNLOAD:
> http://developer.berlios.de/projects/nhi1/
mfg
Andreas Otto (aotto1968)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Exception Misconceptions
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/cbcc4582e3daf8ee?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 6:43 am
From: tanix@mongo.net (tanix)
In article <115e11de-1e0e-4c9f-bed4-10f3e9a8c399@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 22, 10:53 pm, ta...@mongo.net (tanix) wrote:
>> In article
>> <fc93ba82-f199-40b3-a7fd-71c24c7d2...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>> James Kanze <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >On Dec 22, 12:48 am, ta...@mongo.net (tanix) wrote:
>> >> In article
>> >> <a65d3221-02ca-4a18-907f-9027cce07...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, James
>> >> Kanze <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > [...]
>> The rate of coding is orders of magnitude higher nowadays
>> and complexities also.
>
>Actually, I think in a lot of cases, the reverse is true.
I know, I know. That is your style after all.
:--}
Zo... Let us see here the next jewel.
> The
>applications I see today are generally a lot simpler than those
>of yesterday.
Wut?
That bites, I tellya!
> For one thing, there's true runtime support for a
>lot more functionality,
True, which means?
> so you don't have to implement it in the
>application.
Kinda.
> And there are a lot of applications doing very
>simple things---computers are cheap enough that you don't have
>a complex operation to justify using one.
Huh?
I'll skip that one. Just don't get what you are talking about.
>But both now and in previous times, there is a large interval
>between the extremes. It wouldn't surprise me if the most
>complex applications today were more complex than in previous
>times. The least complex are certainly less complex. About all
>I'd say is that the average application is less complex than
>previously.
Well, sorry, I'd have to spend way too much time arguing this.
Seems like you are stretching things WAY too far for my taste.
>> >> If you tell me I have to write my code WITHOUT exeptions, I
>> >> won't take your job offer. Sorry.
>> >It would depend on the context. If they had a good reason for
>> >not using exceptions, then OK. Otherwise, no.
>
>> Well, I would simply feel uncomfortable doing ANY job,
>> unless it is a kernel mode driver, where rules of the game
>> are quite different.
>Kernel mode drivers were one of the cases I was thinking about.
>I've also written for embedded processors with only 2 KB of ROM,
>and 64 bytes of RAM.
Hey, what a time that was!
When you have to write the most compact code for your BIOS.
Otherwise it won't fit into a 4 K ROM!
:--}
THOSE were the times!
> That was a long time agom but I'm sure
>that there are still embedded processors with very limited
>resources (many of which probably don't even have a C++
>compiler---just C).
Sure, for some reason, C is STILL the most popular language
around, at least looking at the amount of traffic on C groups.
>For an application on a general purpose machine, I'd have
>serious doubts about a company which used C, or banned
>exceptions in C++.
I said that just for the sake of argument.
Not that anyone in his clear mind would go as far
as BANNING exceptions code, even though I have seen things
not to far from it.
> But there's a lot more out there than just
>general purpose machines.
> [...]
>> Once you decide to go with return codes, that's it.
>> You have to test EVERY SINGLE return code.
>That is definitely true. (Provided the "return code" returns
>something useful or important. I wouldn't normally bother with
>checking the return code of printf, for example, because it's
>really meaningless.)
Yep, some of them are funny.
But what about scanf? :--}
>> You can not make ANY assumptions.
>> If I EVER find something that does not need to return the
>> return code, because, for example, I solved it differently,
>> I immediately rewrite the called routine so it does not
>> return any return codes, just for the purity of code's sake.
>
>The possible problem here is virtual functions: if one of the
>derived classes can fail, all of the derived classes need a
>return value (or to be able to throw an exception, or whatever).
>
> [...]
>> But I am just curious: what is the essense of argument
>> that the exception processing, under non exception conditions,
>> can possibly incure a significant enough overhead to even
>> bother about it?
>That it once did, for some primorial compiler? I don't know,
>otherwise. It's certainly false today.
Cool. Makes me feel better. That is ALL I want to hear
about this issue.
>> Is it a memory allocation/deallocation issue?
>
>> Sorry to mentioni Java again, but since I started working with
>> Java as my primary language, I just do not recall a single
>> case where exceptions were inefficient.
>Exceptions are easier to make efficient when you don't have
>value semantics, and objects with non-trivial destructors.
Oh, don't tell me about those non-tivial destructors.
It makes me shiver! :--}
> It's
>also easier to write incorrect code in such cases---as I said
>elsewhere, one of the most common errors in Java is a missing
>finally block. Still, except for some very early, experimental
>implementations, I don't know of a case where an exception that
>wasn't thrown has caused performance problems in C++ either.
See?
Then my argument stands.
And that is, once the exception IS hit,
take as much time as you want to do as good of a job of
handling or reporting it as you can imagine.
Because, first of all, it is going to happen in about 0.00001%
of all cases and the overall impact of it is less than you
know what by know hopefully.
Even in some local exceptions I try to do error reporting
and logging to the point where you know EXACTLY at which
exact point happened what and what were the "wrong" paramters
or values of what.
In my main app, I designed a pretty cool mechanism
of error reporting.
What it does is this:
The main class, which is the master of everything,
had a listbox, displayed at the bottom of the main program
window. And there is a checkbox for error reporting that
triggers finer granularity of reporting.
Every single operation that is performed by ANY modules
is passed to the main class via interface.
It is automatically shown in the history listbox.
The contents of this box is automatically logged into
perpetual logs, with file names time stamped to the day.
Which means what?
Well, which means that if I ever find something funky,
not only I can see it immediately in the history box,
but I can even dig those logs, going MONTHS back and
see if some of this funk already happened in the past.
Now, the way things are logged is that you have the
leading characters and keywords that allow you to basically
find anything you want by opening a history log for
your current session and search for those lil hooks,
or things like *** Error: .....
The history listbox has about 1000 entries history,
configurable to anything you want by simply modifying
your main program config file.
So, you can scroll back in history and see ALL sorts
of nice things, such as performance of your program,
the amount of records processed, the time it took,
the amounts of duplicates you found, the amount of
records you had to skip and ALL sorts of "nice to know"
things.
That is probably the best solution I saw to day
that utilizes the concept of logging vs. debugging
and makes your logs as clear and as simple do work with,
as you can imagine. So far, have not had to regret
this design even once. Probably one of the most
powerful aspects of the whole program and I was able
to get more help out of it, than even if I had to debug
this thing for days.
You like that one? :--}
>It's also possible to misuse exceptions, so that they get thrown
>in the normal logic of program execution.
Well, again, my classic example of string to number conversion.
The conversion error is quite "normal" flow
and exception simply replaces the result with default value.
I did see one guy, who is a super programmer,
or world class programmer, who even designed the whole
language that used exceptions as an equivalent of return code
in the language he wrote.
I don't want to tell you his name or the name of that language
But the whole thing looked a bit insane to me.
His language was event driven language.
Jeeez!
Yep, I'd have to agree with you on that one.
Using exceptions in this way is a bit sick.
> I've heard of such
>cases (although I've never seen them in code I've had to deal
>with).
Lucky you! :--}
>Still, any argument against exceptions based on performance is
>simply FUD, at least IMHO.
That is what I thouht. I was just curious.
Who knows, they might have invented some trans gallactic
exception mechanism that allows you FULLY recover all the
intermediate what have you once the exception is hit.
>> >when there are things that have to be cleaned up, and the
>> >author didn't think about exceptions.
>> Well, that comes as a skill. Sooner or later they will learn,
>> or loose their job. THEN they WILL learn for sure.
>The problem is that they don't necessarily learn. Since the
>problem only occurs in "exceptional" cases, and a lot of people
>neglect testing those.
Well, then who knows, that manager may loose his job.
During severl years, when I was cranking a lot of code out,
in the middle of major development phase, I had some situations
when I basically wrote the code to the point where
"it should never happen", while handling some weird errors.
It ran fine for a day or two, and then BOOM!
I had to go back and handle that "impossible to happen" thing.
And this thing happened to me several times during the next
few months. And EVERY SINGLE TIME when I thought, hey this
thing works like a champ, BOOM!
Since then, I never try to forget about some funky
condition I was too lazy to handle or was to itchy just to
get the whole thing to work. But hey, it is more pleasure
to see the whole thing working than to deal with all those
nasty lil lice that get under your skin.
Zo...
There is a fine balance, a tradeoff.
You want to get the kicks out of seeing your thing working?
Then write the major stuff and look at how it runs.
But remember one thing: design your code in such a way,
that there are nice hooks left so that you can easily
plugin the exception or error handling code in without
needing to rewrite some major pieces of code.
Otherwise, you are screwed for good,
and it is going to cost you 10 times more time and effort
to finally make it all hum like Bentley.
>It's interesting to note that in the Java runtime, when opening
>a file fails, they run garbage collection and try again.
Actually, I am impressed with Java gc.
It turns out that it garbage collects your local scope
allocations almost as efficiently as your normal stack unwind
code.
And it garbage collects on ajacent stack slots almost as
fast.
I, personally, think C++ BADLY needs this.
Just to make sure you don't have even theoretical leaks,
all you have to do is to set some object "pointer" to null
at the end, in that finally block or at the end of your code,
which should ALWAYS have a try/catch/finally blocks if that
code is ANY good.
ALL my major code has it. Several levels deep.
NEVER had to regret it.
Outstanding logging and error reporting is a piece o cake
with this design for one thing.
>Because a lot of people forget a finally block when they've
>opened a file, and in case of an exception, never close it.
Interesting thing about finally block is that it is executed
no matter what, even if there is no exceptions.
Nice.
>(Whereas in my code, most of the time, if it's an output file,
>and there is an exception, I not only close the file, but delete
>it. So there's no inconsistent file lying around after the
>program has run.)
Well, I do not bother to go THAT far.
When operation STARTS, that is where I need to know all my
files are good if they are input.
I can not just delete the output file if some error occurs.
Because that file already has several hundred of perfeclty
good data, and even if it is damaged as a result of some
funk, the file is a text file. I don't use any other stuff.
A matter of principle.
So what I do instead is to have the archive maintenance
module, that is as powerful as it gets. It allows you
to do magic with your files, including sorting the records,
removing duplicates, normalizing the structure to increase
the processing efficiency, filtering the archive with the
most sophisticate filters, merging archives, appending
archives and verifying the archive integrity.
If some record, even in the middle of archive, is damaged,
we report and log where exactly did it happen, so it is
a matter of seconds to find the exact place and manually
fix the record or delete it if it screwed up beyond
repair.
So, after I run the archive clean operation,
I am guaranteed to have the cleanest data you can imagine
in your wildest dreams. Even clearner than it was in the
original, non error input, that sometimes still has
errors becuase of some funky servers serving some funky
non RFC compliant data.
Cool eh?
:--}
We are sitting pretty here with this thing.
> [...]
>> Do you have MORE logic in your program if you use return codes?
>> Or LESS?
>You have the same amount of logic.
Not true. But I know you are going to come up with something
kinky. Let us see here.
> Or else there's an error
>somewhere.
I'd like to see a more substantial argument on this.
> The only difference is that with exceptions, some of
>the logic isn't visible, and doesn't have to be manually
>written. (It does still have to be considered when analysing
>program correctness.)
You ARE a pervert! :--}
But fine, I appreciate THIS kind of thing.
>Don't confuse logic with lines of code.
Well, I bet this argument is SO subtle,
that you'll crack your scull sooner than you can prove it.
:--}
Enjoy the trip.
--
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== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 9:11 am
From: "io_x"
"tanix" <tanix@mongo.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:hgq529$9m4$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> And here is the real kicker:
>
> "We need a program of psychosurgery and
> political control of our society. The purpose is
> physical control of the mind. Everyone who
> deviates from the given norm can be surgically
> mutilated.
>
> The individual may think that the most important
> reality is his own existence, but this is only his
> personal point of view. This lacks historical perspective.
>
> Man does not have the right to develop his own
> mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great
> appeal. We must electrically control the brain.
> Some day armies and generals will be controlled
> by electrical stimulation of the brain."
Something like this is already happen first of II war world
in Germany(hittler), in Italy(mussolini), where all people
are like one
and all people think the same,
and repeat that like parrots
what the people of power said.
the voice of people that were not agree was turned off
the voice of comedians that speak again the power people were
turned off
the words were "credere, obbedire, combattere"
if who has the power is a good guy all shoudl go well;
but if he is one imbecile like hittler or mussolinie above
are millions of dead!
------------
and this is like what happen here in italy now;
when one only person here control
3 national public tv
and
has like own
3 national private tv
and control newspapers too
the same guy control all the "digitale terrestre" too
the public tv thru the parliament
and the private tv are all of that people
(in what i can understand)
people on tv repeat and repeat always the same thing.
in these tv someone can hear only one political party
the one that own all TV-newspaper in all the same party.
people of art like "Beppe Grillo" or "I Guzzanti" has no space in this
the same for "Di Pietro" (party IDV) no space,
and many other parties-comedians the same.
The old people are in their same line and repeat with them,
the people with no study repeat in chorus with them,
without doing questions.
the questions and the answer are all the same
in all interview it seems the questions are know from who
has to answer first of the tv video.
but i understand and believe in no one thing they say
they are for me all liars
for me, "journalists" here speak all the same not because they
think something, but because someone else said
they have to say only what they have to say.
> -- Dr. Jose Delgado
> (MKULTRA experimenter who demonstrated a
> radio-controlled bull on CNN in 1985)
> Director of Neuropsychiatry, Yale University
hope that the world not became one dictatorship
and there is a way, using PCs to hear not always
the same voice, or more angles to see the reality
(if possible in anonimity too because of dictotorship)
> Medical School.
> Congressional Record No. 26, Vol. 118, February 24, 1974
>
> --
> Programmer's Goldmine collections:
>
> http://preciseinfo.org
>
> Tens of thousands of code examples and expert discussions on
> C++, MFC, VC, ATL, STL, templates, Java, Python, Javascript,
> organized by major topics of language, tools, methods, techniques.
>
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 11:02 am
From: Ian Collins
tanix wrote:
> James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 22, 10:53 pm, ta...@mongo.net (tanix) wrote:
>>> The rate of coding is orders of magnitude higher nowadays
>>> and complexities also.
>> Actually, I think in a lot of cases, the reverse is true.
>
> I know, I know. That is your style after all.
> :--}
>
>> The
>> applications I see today are generally a lot simpler than those
>> of yesterday.
>
> Wut?
> That bites, I tellya!
>
>> For one thing, there's true runtime support for a
>> lot more functionality,
>
> True, which means?
>
>> so you don't have to implement it in the
>> application.
>
> Kinda.
>
>> And there are a lot of applications doing very
>> simple things---computers are cheap enough that you don't have
>> a complex operation to justify using one.
>
> Huh?
> I'll skip that one. Just don't get what you are talking about.
Oh come on, even you must realise there are millions or tiny CPUs in all
sorts of trivial gadgets these days.
<ramblings snipped.
>> Don't confuse logic with lines of code.
>
> Well, I bet this argument is SO subtle,
> that you'll crack your scull sooner than you can prove it.
Bullshit. Try implementing automatic object destruction in C and see
how many lines of code that adds that you don't have to write in C++.
> --
Your sig delimiter is broken.
--
Ian Collins
==============================================================================
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: prefix increment operator and side-effects
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/a9ceda48b98581d8?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 7:12 am
From: "subramanian100in@yahoo.com, India"
Stroustrup in his book "The C++ Programming Language - Third Edition
(NOT the special third edition)", mentions the following in page 125
in section "6.2.5 Increment and Decrement".
"By definition, ++lvalue means lvalue += 1, which again means lvalue =
lvalue + 1 provided lvalue has no side-effects".
Here I am unable to understand why Stroustrup has mentioned "provided
lvalue has no side-effects". Isn't the expression ++lvalue the same as
lvalue = lvalue + 1 always ? Kindly clarify with an example.
Thanks
V.Subramanian
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 8:11 am
From: "Niels Dekker - no reply address"
V.Subramanian wrote:
> Stroustrup in his book "The C++ Programming Language - Third Edition
> (NOT the special third edition)", mentions the following in page 125
> in section "6.2.5 Increment and Decrement".
> "By definition, ++lvalue means lvalue += 1, which again means lvalue =
> lvalue + 1 provided lvalue has no side-effects".
>
> Here I am unable to understand why Stroustrup has mentioned "provided
> lvalue has no side-effects".
For example, suppose you have an object v, of a type similar to
std::vector<int>. You would expect ++v[0] to be equivalent to v[0] = v[0] +
1. But clearly that assumes that doing v[0] doesn't have some side-effect,
like doing std::cout << "Hey, operator[] is called".
Does that answer your question?
--
Niels Dekker
http://www.xs4all.nl/~nd/dekkerware
Scientific programmer at LKEB, Leiden University Medical Center
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Exception Misconceptions: Exceptions are for unrecoverable errors.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/786cfdf0ab25866d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 7:14 am
From: tanix@mongo.net (tanix)
In article <51cd1818-1da8-4461-899b-c4912dd1add8@b32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 23, 12:45 pm, ta...@mongo.net (tanix) wrote:
>> In article <hgskgk$kc...@news.albasani.net>, Vladimir Jovic
>> <vladasp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >James Kanze wrote:
>> >> On Dec 22, 4:55 pm, Kaz Kylheku <kkylh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> On 2009-12-22, Vladimir Jovic <vladasp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >>>> Stefan Ram wrote:
>> >>>> [snip]
>
>> >>>>> More elegantly? Actually, for correct and secure C++
>> >>>>> code, all functions need to be written to be =BBexception
>> >>>>> safe=AB, but only a minority of C++ programmers does so or
>> >>>>> even is aware of it.
>> >>>> Why?
>
>> >>> The above is false. Exception-safe code is needed to write
>> >>> code that avoids resource leaks in the face of an exception.
>
>> >> It's need to write code that is correct in the face of an
>> >> exception. What "correct" means depends on the application
>> >> specifications. (On the other hand, what he wrote is false
>> >> in so far that if the function calls no other function, or
>> >> only calls functions guaranteed not to throw, it doesn't
>> >> have to be exception safe.)
>
>> >Ok, I forgot about that. Thank you.
>
>> >But how many people are adding what exception can a method
>> >throw in it's declaration? (forgot how it is called. Is it
>> >exception declaration?) All normal coding styles are telling
>> >that is causing more trouble then it helps.
>
>First, many people do use "throw()" when a function cannot
>throw. But that's beside the point: when you're writing code,
>you do have to know whether the function can throw or not;
>whether this information is provided by a language construct or
>the documentation is really irrelevant.
Well, I use throw() as a matter of practice.
In YOUR language, it becomes a part of "program logic".
In MY language, it becomes a part of your defense system
against ANY kinds of most unpleasant errors.
Even if I open a file that does not throw, and I detect
an error opening it, I may throw() myself. Because I know
the higher levels have a catch that catches ANY kind of funk,
and it KNOWS what is the logical meaining of ANY ot those
throws in bulk is.
On lower level, I may not even be able to formulate a logical
error. Because I do not even know who the hell is doing what
while they are calling me to deal with this file.
So, what is the point of me reporting: "error: could not open file"?
Not much. Because you could not open it doing what?
You might be opening tens of files, and some of them may
be functionalli similar. But what is the CONTEXT?
You see?
So, this IS the case where your throws and exception mechanism
becomes a direct part of your program logic, and I mean HIGHER
level logic than simply ifs and buts of some routine.
>> >>> For instance:
>> >>> {
>> >>> char *p =3D new char[256];
>> >>> f();
>> >>> }
>
>> >>> If f throws an exception, this statement block is
>> >>> abandoned, and the allocated memory is leaked.
>
>> >> Or not. If the application is using garbage collection,
>> >> it's not leaked. If the application immediately terminates
>> >> (and is in a hosted environment), it's not leaked.
>
>> >Not many people are using GC :P
>
>> I recall seeing some articles on gc issue in C++ a while back
>> on this very group. Do not remember what it was.
>
>> But what can I say out of my own experience with Java is this:
>> A well written GC is such a help, that I can not even see the
>> argument of not implementing it to this day.
>
>I agree,
Cool. So GET TO WORK, you high tower priests!
:--}
> but you can't loose sight of the fact that Java and C++
>are two different languages.
So what?
> Garbage collection is nice in C++:
>it definitely makes it easier to write correct code in a lot of
>cases, and it is essential for safety (no dangling pointers) in
>others.
Cool, so wire it into language on a level of a spec
and STANDARD functionality.
> But it isn't nearly as essential in C++ as in Java,
Wut?
>because C++ supports value semantics. Which mean that you don't
>use nearly as many dynamically allocated objects, and most of
>the ones you do use have deterministic lifetimes anyway. (Of
>course, the safety issue still stands.)
Well, to tell you the truth, I do like java in this respect
better.
There is no such things as -> in java.
Everything is bla.bla.blah.
So, if you need to extend your code, you don't have to worrry
about replacing the -> notation to . notation in some instances,
which may take hours for you if you change your objects and
create some super objects than include those, etc.
Secondly, I don't have to worry about "value semantics".
I could care less if it exists. I don't have to add THIS
level of ganularity, which only creates more complications
at the end.
Just look at some "improvements" in C++, like references?
What the funk are those?
Nobody can even agree on how some compilers interpret it.
You can not assume ANY semantics if you use references.
I did not watch the C++ development for years now.
But I just have an intuitive feeling that what you guys
are doing is everything you can to kill the language.
The amount of complexities you introduce and the amount
of visible, tangible benefits they produce as a bottom
line is just WAY too lil bang for a buck.
Jeeez. I bet they are going to jump at me in bulk now!
:--}
I think language is moving in a totally dead end direction.
Again, look at the experience of Java.
Do you think, in your clear mind that it was just a waste?
That the whole Java thing is nothing more than a bad joke?
I'd think REALLY hard before answering this question.
And what do YOU guys do?
Well, just IGNORE it all, like it is some "terrorist" camp,
like some "evil" Saddam.
Instead of learning from it and appreciating that grand
piece of work called Java.
What do you learn from Php or Python, or even stinky
Javascript, as screwed up as it it?
ANYTHING?
Well, you, hight tower priests, could care less those
languages exist, because to you, "purists", those are
not really languages. Those are just toys for infantiles.
Meanwhile, more and more of the most significant development
is being implemented every single day using the Php, Python,
Ruby, Javascript, SQL or even that HTML, NONE of which has
the kind of portability problems C++ has.
Do you see ANYTHING?
Or you are blind, sitting in that fortress of yours,
in that high tower of yours, hoarding the "secrets"
of the "craft"?
I just bet you, the significance of C++ is going to be diminished
to the point, where it will become an atrophied organ in the
body of modern world, and information processing specifically.
And information processing is probably the most critical
aspects of the entire mankind's development and survival.
Because things need to happen URGENTLY now and at a rate
never seen before in the entire history of mankind.
By the time those monsters, aka politicians, keep hoarding
some of their "private interests" and making some deal
as far as environmental situations goes, that are simply
insane, we need the information machine to work as smoothly
and as efficiently as we can manage.
And that is YOUR OBLIGATION. It is not longer a luxury,
or some game you play when you have nothing better to do.
So, the VAST majority of programming nowadays better be
directed towards information processing.
TOTAL portability is a MUST from now on.
I do not want to hear the type of arguments I keep hearing.
Not that it matters to me personally more than a dead
mosquito fart.
I want to see C++, if it EVER has a chance, to run
on ANY platform and I want to see a GUI wired into the
language. Sure, you don't have an equivalent of JVM,
so you can not rely on things it provides you.
Well, but WHO prevents you from having something of
that kind or even going as far as starting out with
using the existing JVM? After all, how was C++
initially implemented?
Ask Strousrup.
And I did, and he lied.
At Ruben Engineering, Cambridge, Mass. USA.
Because I asked him this:
"why did you implement C++ as a preprocessor to C?"
And he said:
Nope. It is NOT a preprocessor.
And it is a lie.
Because it was literally a fancy preporocessor.
Because after the 1st phase of "compilation",
it simply ran the C compiler.
Ask him.
And what about those "objects" and how the first versions
of C++ were linked?
Well, the stuff was PATCHED in your executable,
just to make C++ behavior out of standard C exectutables.
So...
Why don't you hack something up that can help to save
this dinasaur called C++?
Ok, enough for now.
Cya.
>> I bet you can not even imagine how much times was wasted to
>> date by the programmers to deal with this totally stoopid
>> issues related to memory deallocation. Probably at least 30%
>> of total time spend on developing the C++ code.
>
>Generally less than 10% of the time. But given the cost of
>competent engineers, even 10% is worth it.
>
>> C++ would probably be benefited tremendously if it adopted
>> some of the central Java concept, such as GC, threads and GUI.
>
>> Except that would require an equivalent of a virtual machine
>> underneath.
>
>Not at all. I've used garbage collection in C++, and I've used
>C++ in multithreaded programs. And a lot of people have written
>GUI's in C++. All without a virtual machine.
>
>All would be nice additions, IMHO, although for various
>reasons, I don't think a standard GUI would be possible today.
>
--
Programmer's Goldmine collections:
Tens of thousands of code examples and expert discussions on
C++, MFC, VC, ATL, STL, templates, Java, Python, Javascript,
organized by major topics of language, tools, methods, techniques.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 2:51 pm
From: Kaz Kylheku
On 2009-12-22, James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> wrote:
> And there can be other issues besides leaking. In the end,
> you've got to ensure internal consistency for all possible
> control flows. When some of the possible control flows are the
> result of an exception, then this requirement is called
> exception safety.
Right; for instance failing to unlock a mutex, or roll
back a transaction, aren't resource leaks.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 3:04 pm
From: Branimir Maksimovic
dragan wrote:
> Saying "Exceptions are for unrecoverable errors" seems to imply that they
> are to be used only or mostly in such situations.
I use exception everywhere instead of error code return from function.
It is easier to program if you get rid of statements like
if(f()==error){ return error or handle error }
Also I have very few try's only in places for top level cleanup...
Exceptions are mechanism to make code cleaner...and to get rid of
error codes as return values from functions..
Greets
==============================================================================
TOPIC: is it possible to create the functionality of a virtual template method?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/cfb003f4dd8224ec?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 7:31 am
From: Michael Doubez
On 23 déc, 13:43, "ted orange" <nos...@please.com> wrote:
> "Michael Doubez" <michael.dou...@free.fr> wrote in message
>
> news:7d56071c-3291-499d-b8c5-a36cc365e405@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On 23 déc, 11:04, "ted orange" <nos...@please.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> "Michael Doubez" <michael.dou...@free.fr> wrote in message
> >>news:7383d7f5-bc8f-446a-b6f3-ec139ff9f21b@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> >> On 23 déc, 09:54, "ted orange" <nos...@please.com> wrote:
> >> > I would like to have a container of objects where each object has a
> >> > template
> >> > method like so
>
> >> > template <class T>
>
> >> > void DoSomething(T& t);
>
> >> > so that I may, at runtime, pass various types to that method. The type
> >> > will
> >> > be automatically dededuced.
>
> >> > I understand that virtual template methods are not permitted and that
> >> > containers may only store heterogeneous collections if they are
> >> > polymorphic.
>
> >> > Is there a mechanism by which I can attain my objective?
>
> >> There are many ways with different trade-offs. It depends on the
> >> contract you can make on T or on how much you can impact on the
> >> objects.
>
> >> Three examples:
> [snip]
> >> 2 You can wrap T into a polymorphic object reflecting the contracts/
> >> concepts on T and pass it to a virtual function. It comes at the cost
> >> of reducing the range of type.
> [snip]
> >> Myself, I would favor the second solution because it provides high
> >> control on the input types and keeps coupling low.
> [snip]
> > I think I understand what you're saying but plz provide an example of 2 to
> > clarify. Thanks.
>
> I have posted an example not so long ago:http://groups.google.fr/group/comp.lang.c++/browse_frm/thread/724c2ca...
>
> Here is a copy of the relevant example:
> <quote>
> One approach is to use dynamic polymorphism, that is if you can
> define a same contract on your type. As an example if your foo is only
> displaying a message with the data in parameter, your contract if that
> the type should support (ostream<<T), you define the interface:
>
> struct foo_ostreamable
> {
> virtual ostream& output(ostream&)const=0;
>
> };
>
> Then you define a templated foo_streambable implementation:
>
> template<typename T>
> struct foo_ostreamable_imp: foo_ostreamable
> {
> T value;
> foo_ostreamable_imp(const T& t):value(t){}
>
> virtual ostream& output(ostream& os)const{return os<<value;}
>
> };
>
> And finally the parameter of SuperClass::foo with templated
> constructor:
>
> struct foo_param
> {
> template<typename T>
> foo_param(const T& t){data.reset(new foo_ostreamable_imp<T>(t));
>
> scoped_ptr<foo_ostreamable> data;
>
> };
>
> // foo_param can be written into ostream
> ostream& operator<<(ostream& os,const foo_param& p)
> {
> return p.data->output(os);
>
> }
>
> And finally, you define your classes:
> class SuperClass
> {
> public:
> virtual void foo(const foo_param&) const = 0;
>
> };
>
> class SubClass: public SuperClass
> {
> public:
> virtual void foo(const foo_param& p) const { cout << p <<
> endl;}
>
> } ;
>
> The compiler will automatically resolve with correct subtype:
> SubClass s;
> s.foo(1);
> s.foo(0.1);
> s.foo("bar");
> ...
>
> If you want to keep/compare foo_param values, there is some management
> to do such as deep copy and others to put it into canonical form. If a
> type doesn't react as you want, you overload foo_param constructor.
> </quote>
>
[snip]
> I'm a bit confused (I struggle with abstract concepts). Why is your example
> different from simply using polymorphism? Like this:
>
> class Pet
> {
> public:
> virtual void Speak() = 0;
>
> };
>
> class Cat : public Pet
> {
> public:
> void Speak(){cout << "meow";}
>
> };
>
> class Dog : public Pet
> {
> public:
> void Speak(){cout << "woof";}
>
> };
>
> void DoSomething(const Pet& p)
> {
> p.Speak();
>
> }
>
> Is it that in your example the contract for what a type is permitted to do
> is specified outside its definition?
In your example, Cat and Dog have a common ancestor Pet. Which is not
always the case. In your original post, you would like to pass in a
virtual function types that are not related.
If you used simple polymorphism, you would have to explicitely
instanciate a wrapper for each type you want to support
Wrapper param1(1);
s.foo(param1);
Wrapper param2(0.1)
s.foo(param2);
Wrapper param3("bar")
s.foo(param3);
or you would have to restrict to const object
s.foo(1); // s.foo(Wrapper(1))
s.foo(0.1); // s.foo(Wrapper(0.1));
s.foo("bar"); // s.foo(Wrapper("bar"));
Depending on your design you may need one solution or the other.
--
Michael
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ☎ ☞free shipping wholesale low price nike shox shoes and ed hardy Jeans
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http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/48aa4324d15f09d7?hl=en
==============================================================================
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Q: Free compiler for 64 bit Windows 7?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/5f665081d6a6b15e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 8:57 am
From: red floyd
On Dec 22, 4:26 pm, ta...@mongo.net (tanix) wrote:
> [ad hominem against Pete redacted]
*PLONK*
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 9:43 am
From: "Bo Persson"
tanix wrote:
> In article <hgrhcm$5ba$1@news.eternal-september.org>, "Alf P.
> Steinbach" <alfps@start.no> wrote:
>
>> C++ tools and GCC as an answer would be on-topic by the [clc++m]
>> charter and moderation guidelines, as I see it (both James Kanze
>> and I are moderators there), and assuming that my evaluation of
>> that is correct, it would be a little
>> incongruous to regard it as off-topic in this group, which lacks
>> a charter!
>
> Well, I just thought about this about half an hour ago,
> and would like to mention it here.
>
> It is GREAT that there exists a parallel, "moderated" group.
> That means THIS group is not going to be taken over by those
> "moderators", who, for some strange reason think THEY are the
> ultimate reference on that, which IS and which is NOT.
>
The moderated list was started by people who couldn't stand reading
the unmoderated list at the time. It's your choice which groups you
want to follow.
Nowadays many of us (including most of the moderators :-) actually
read both groups, just not to miss any interesting topics.
Bo Persson
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 11:20 am
From: "James"
"tanix" <tanix@mongo.net> wrote in message
news:hgrgf9$r9h$2@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <RKKdnft88JlPiazWnZ2dnUVZ_sti4p2d@giganews.com>, Pete Becker
> <pete@versatilecoding.com> wrote:
>>tanix wrote:
>>> In article <Re2dncsqjrDaXa3WnZ2dnUVZ_tZi4p2d@giganews.com>, Pete Becker
>> <pete@versatilecoding.com> wrote:
>>>> arunix wrote:
>>>>>> What about asking in a Windoze newsgroup?
>>>>> Because its gcc based compiler.
>>>> Oh, of course: a gcc based compiler for Windows isn't a Windows
>>>> compiler.
>>>>
>>>> Sigh. gcc is just as off-topic as Windows.
>>>
>>> What is this "off-topic" bullshit?
>>>
>>> Have you heard of cygwin?
>>>
>>
>>Yes, I'm familiar with cygwin. It's just as off-topic in this newsgroup
>>as "gcc" and "Windows compilers".
>
> Who ARE you to dictate things like these to some of the most intelligent
> people one can find and whose brains function well above average?
>
> If you think it is "off-topic", here is the best advice I know of
> about things like this, directly from the horses mouth,
> Russ Allbery. Do you know who he is?
>
> "If you don't like something, do not read it.
> Do not follow up on it.
> Just forget about it".
>
> Simple, isn't it?
Why can't you follow you're own advise moron! If you don't like something
Pete wrote, do not read it. Do not follow up on it. Just forget about it!
Wow, what a total dipsh%t!!!!!!!!!!!
:^|
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 11:25 am
From: "Chris M. Thomasson"
"tanix" <tanix@mongo.net> wrote in message
news:hgro3r$gd5$2@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <RKKdnft88JlPiazWnZ2dnUVZ_sti4p2d@giganews.com>, Pete Becker
> <pete@versatilecoding.com> wrote:
>>tanix wrote:
>>> In article <Re2dncsqjrDaXa3WnZ2dnUVZ_tZi4p2d@giganews.com>, Pete Becker
>> <pete@versatilecoding.com> wrote:
>>>> arunix wrote:
>>>>>> What about asking in a Windoze newsgroup?
>>>>> Because its gcc based compiler.
>>>> Oh, of course: a gcc based compiler for Windows isn't a Windows
>>>> compiler.
>>>>
>>>> Sigh. gcc is just as off-topic as Windows.
>>>
>>> What is this "off-topic" bullshit?
>>>
>>> Have you heard of cygwin?
>>>
>>
>>Yes, I'm familiar with cygwin. It's just as off-topic in this newsgroup
>>as "gcc" and "Windows compilers".
>
> You don't OWN this group
> and it is not your private kitchen.
> And you are not an authorised controller of the global information
> streams, no matter how big of a fart you think you are.
You seem to be easily irritated. Do you happen to suffer from high blood
pressure and/or an anti-social disorder?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Merry Christmas!
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/42a1418a56e1e706?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 9:12 am
From: "io_x"
Buon Natale
Merry Christmas to all!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ===Welcome to comp.lang.c++! Read this first.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/c41dbee19dc510da?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 9:30 am
From: Shiva
Welcome to comp.lang.c++! Read this first.
This post is intended to give the new reader an introduction to reading
and posting in this newsgroup. We respectfully request that you read
all the way through this post, as it helps make for a more pleasant
and useful group for everyone.
First of all, please keep in mind that comp.lang.c++ is a group for discussion
of general issues of the C++ programming language, as defined by the ANSI/ISO
language standard. If you have a problem that is specific to a particular system
or compiler, you are much more likely to get complete and accurate answers in a
group that specializes in your platform. A listing of some newsgroups is given
at the end of this post.
The FAQ (Frequently Asked Question) list has a wealth of information for
both the new and veteran C++ programmer. No matter what your experience
level, you are encouraged to read the entire list, if only to familiarize
yourself with what answers are available to minimize redundant replies.
The comp.lang.c++ FAQ is available at http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
If the FAQ list does not help, then many regular readers of this group
are happy to assist with problems of standard C++. We have only a few
requests that we ask be adhered to, for the benefit of all:
* Please put a short summary in the subject line. Descriptions such as
"HELP!!!!!!" are not helpful, and many regular posters ignore such
requests. A good example is, "Problem with Virtual Functions."
* State the question or the problem clearly and concisely. Describe what
you are trying to do, and the problem you are running into. Include all
relevant error messages.
* Include the smallest, complete and compilable program that exhibits your
problem. As a rule, posters in comp.lang.c++ will not do homework, but will
give helpful hints if you have shown some willingness to try a solution.
* comp.lang.c++ is forum for discussion, and as such some regular posters do
not give E-mail replies. Very often follow-ups to postings have corrections,
so plan on taking part in the discussion if you post a question. If you
do receive e-mail replies, it is considered polite to post a summary.
* Don't post in HTML format. Many readers of this newsgroup don't use
newsreaders which can handle HTML postings.
* If you have to include source code in your post, include the
source in the message body. Don't use attachments. A lot
of contributors to this newsgroup won't even notice the existence
of attachments or won't open them. You try to get any help
you can get, don't you?
Some netiquette topics which frequently crop up on comp.lang.c++ are
also answered in the FAQ.
* Should I post job advertisements and/or resumes on comp.lang.c++?
http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/how-to-post.html#faq-5.10
* What if I really need a job; should I post my resume on comp.lang.c++?
http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/how-to-post.html#faq-5.11
* What should I do to someone who posts something off-topic?
http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/how-to-post.html#faq-5.12
A note on comp.lang.c++ etiquette: Accuracy is valued very highly in this
newsgroup; therefore posts are frequently corrected, sometimes perhaps
too harshly, and often to the annoyance of new posters who consider the
correction trivial. Do not take it personally; the best way to fit in
with comp.lang.c++ is to express gratitude for the correction, move on,
and be more careful next time.
This is a very busy group, so these requests are designed to make it as
pleasant and efficient an experience as possible. We hope it proves
a valuable commodity to you.
A list of some Newsgroups :
Languages and Programming
-------------------------
comp.lang.c The C Programming Language
comp.lang.asm.x86 x86 assembly language programming
comp.programming Non-language specific programming
comp.graphics.algorithms Issues of computer graphics
Operating Systems
-----------------
comp.os.msdos.programmer DOS, BIOS, Memory Models, interrupts,
screen handling, hardware
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32 MS/Windows: Mice, DLLs, hardware
comp.os.os2.programmer.misc OS/2 Programming
comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Macintosh Programming
comp.unix.programmer General Unix: processes, pipes, POSIX,
curses, sockets
comp.unix.[vendor] Various Unix vendors
Microsoft VC++
-------------
microsoft.public.vc.language VC++ issues
microsoft.public.vc.mfc MFC Issues
microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc C++/CLR Issues
microsoft.public.dotnet.framework .Net Framework
Borland C++ Builder
-------------------
borland.public.cppbuilder.language Borland C++ Builder
borland.public.cpp.language
borland.public.cppbuilder
-Shiva
http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
Wed Dec 23 12:30:00 EST 2009
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Locale to Unicode Codepoint mapping?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/0f87b730b24e407a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 10:27 am
From: "Peter Olcott"
I need to know the set of Unicode codepoints associated with
every regional dialect of a human language. How can I go
about finding this information?
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 12:07 pm
From: Paavo Helde
"Peter Olcott" <NoSpam@SeeScreen.com> wrote in news:sNadnYzpgdO6
_K_WnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@giganews.com:
> I need to know the set of Unicode codepoints associated with
> every regional dialect of a human language. How can I go
> about finding this information?
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=unicode
==============================================================================
TOPIC: workaround for auto_ptr<> in STL containers?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/ea539aaeae39cd19?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 11:07 am
From: Christof Warlich
Hi,
I'm stuck in a rather standard situation that may therefore be best
illustrated with a standard example, i.e. a graphics library offering a
bunch of shapes.
I want to allow the user to create shapes at _runtime_ as desired, so
all my shapes are derived from an abstract Shape class, allowing me to
both keep track of all the created shape objects in a list and to clone
new shape objects from the available shapes depending on user input, e.g.:
#include <iostream>
#include <typeinfo>
#include <vector>
struct Shape {
virtual ~Shape() {}
virtual Shape *Clone() = 0;
void Register() {Templates.push_back(this);}
static std::vector<Shape *> Templates;
};
std::vector<Shape *> Shape::Templates;
struct Circle: Shape {
Circle() {Register();}
Circle(int radius) {std::cout << "Creating circle.\n";}
Circle *Clone() {
std::cout << "radius? " << std::flush;
int radius;
std::cin >> radius;
return new Circle(radius);
}
static Circle Template;
};
Circle Circle::Template;
struct Rectangle: Shape {
Rectangle() {Register();}
Rectangle(int height, int width) {std::cout << "Creating
rectangle.\n";}
Rectangle *Clone() {
std::cout << "height, width? " << std::flush;
int height, width;
std::cin >> height >> width;
return new Rectangle(height, width);
}
static Rectangle Template;
};
Rectangle Rectangle::Template;
int main() {
int number;
long address;
while(std::cin.good()) {
std::cout << "Enter number to create a shape:\n";
for(unsigned int i = 0; i < Shape::Templates.size(); i++) {
std::cout << i << ": " <<
typeid(*(Shape::Templates[i])).name() << std::endl;
}
std::cin >> std::dec >> number;
Shape::Templates[number]->Clone();
}
}
In the example, I used pointer semantic to exploit polymorphism, which
is fine for this simple case, but tracking deletion of objects quickly
becomes difficult in more complex scenarios. Thus, I considered using
std::auto_ptr<> to overcome this, but auto_ptr<> does not seem to be
compatible with STL containers, where I want to keep my shapes in some
sort of list.
Any ideas how this (i.e. auto-deletion of unreferenced objects) could be
handled in a generic way while using STL containers?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Christof
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 2:30 pm
From: Branimir Maksimovic
Christof Warlich wrote:
> In the example, I used pointer semantic to exploit polymorphism, which
> is fine for this simple case, but tracking deletion of objects quickly
> becomes difficult in more complex scenarios. Thus, I considered using
> std::auto_ptr<> to overcome this, but auto_ptr<> does not seem to be
> compatible with STL containers, where I want to keep my shapes in some
> sort of list.
>
> Any ideas how this (i.e. auto-deletion of unreferenced objects) could be
> handled in a generic way while using STL containers?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions,
>
> Christof
Why don;t you use just shared_ptr or implement reference counting in
base class?
http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_35_0/boost/shared_ptr.hpp
Greets
==============================================================================
TOPIC: C++ jobs down another 40%
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/6718a9cd2f3ecdbf?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 12:50 pm
From: Jon Harrop
The number of job adverts in the UK citing C++ has fallen 40% for the second
year in a row:
http://flyingfrogblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/c-is-dying.html
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 12:56 pm
From: ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Jon Harrop <jon@ffconsultancy.com> writes:
>The number of job adverts in the UK citing C++ has fallen 40%
>for the second year in a row:
>http://flyingfrogblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/c-is-dying.html
2 C 16 % and raising
4 C++ 9 % and falling
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
»C++ has become a niche language, but I talk to many C++
programmers who live in total denial about that fact.«
http://weblogs.java.net/blog/cayhorstmann/archive/2008/01/dinosaurs_can_t_1.html
»C++ is becoming a freak language that's parading its
disfigurements in front of mildly disgusted but
curiously fascinated audience.«
http://www.relisoft.com/tools/CppCritic.html
»If you port your Firefox add-on to IE, you may have to
use C++. And Allen admitted that this is a bit 1998.
"The first thing people say is 'That's horrible. No one
programs in C++ anymore,'" he said.«
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/11/firefox_to_ie_port/
»I wish the C++ people would wake up and realize that C++
is drowning in its own complexity.«
Pro-Phi-Psi; Tuesday, March 11, 2008
http://prophipsi.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-i-no-longer-like-or-use-c.html (gone)
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 23 2009 3:02 pm
From: red floyd
On Dec 23, 12:50 pm, Jon Harrop <j...@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
> The number of job adverts in the UK citing C++ has fallen 40% for the second
> year in a row:
>
Hey, Jon! Wha'ts the market for F# jobs like?
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