Wednesday, January 24, 2018

Digest for comp.lang.c++@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 10 topics

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid>: Jan 24 09:48PM

On 23/01/2018 21:35, Gareth Owen wrote:
>> catastrophically wrong first.
 
> Oh, it did. Sometimes the most catastrophic that can possibly happen is
> for the code to keep happily running :)
 
I've had ... discussions ... with some of my colleagues about this. Most
of them are in favour of "fail hard, fail early" so we get system dumps
to tell us what's wrong. We too have some abort during delete - and they
only happen every couple of months on any given system. One or two
people do not want asserts in production code.
 
Andy
Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>: Jan 24 01:24PM -0800

>> almost as zealously as I remove passing integral types by const reference!
 
> Oddly, I'm with Alf here. Maybe not for tiny function bodies like this one,
> but not just for huge ones either.
 
How large the function is makes a big difference. I use const
where I think it adds something, and not where it doesn't. In
small functions it rarely does, and most function bodies are
small (or they should be). Of course long functions are another
matter, but in those cases I would rather see effort be applied
to dividing the function appropriately than to making the long
function easier to live with.
 
> To me, /not/ marking them 'const' signals an intent to modify them
> later on in the code.
 
For me 'const' signifies something worth bringing to the attention
of the reader. Overusing const is just as much of a negative as
underusing it.
Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>: Jan 24 01:34PM -0800

> dislike forward declarations; I'm much happier with having functions
> (and other things) appear just when they're needed -- even though that
> means main() as to come last.
 
I dislike having to write forward declarations, and to a lesser
extent having to see them while reading. But I dislike those
things a lot less than having to read code backwards.
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>: Jan 24 10:48PM +0100

On 1/24/2018 10:34 PM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
 
> I dislike having to write forward declarations, and to a lesser
> extent having to see them while reading. But I dislike those
> things a lot less than having to read code backwards.
 
I'm not sure I grok what you mean here. Surely you don't read the code
sequentially?
 
 
Cheers!,
 
- Alf
arnuld <sunrise@invalid.address>: Jan 24 12:18PM

#include <iostream>
 
class Base
{
virtual void method() {std::cout << "from Base" << std::endl;}
 
public:
virtual ~Base() {method();}
void baseMethod() {method();}
};
 
class A : public Base
{
void method() {std::cout << "from A" << std::endl;}
public:
~A() {method();}
};
 
int main(void)
{
Base* base = new A;
base->baseMethod();
delete base;
return 0;
}
 
==================== OUTPUT =============================
[arnuld@arch64 programs]$ g++ -std=c++17 -pedantic -Wall -Wextra
virtual.cpp
[arnuld@arch64 programs]$ ./a.out
from A
from A
from Base
[arnuld@arch64 programs]$
 
 
See if my understanding is correct, lets walk through:
 
1) A new /Base type/ is created. It was allocated memory of derived
class /A type/. Implicit cast was performed by compiler. Constructors of
both /A/and /Base/ are called but they do not exist and hence nothing
happens.
 
2) base->baseMethod() is called which calls method(), it prints "from
Base".
 
3) /delete/ calls the destructor of /Base/, it prints "from Base" again.
 
But that does not happen.
 
 
 
-- arnuld
http://lispmachine.wordpress.com/
asetofsymbols@gmail.com: Jan 24 05:04AM -0800

Possible I make one error is some time not use C++
 
But where is the problem
 
int main() {Base base; base.baseMethod();return 0;}
?
Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com>: Jan 24 05:08AM -0800

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 10:19:22 AM UTC-2, arnuld wrote:
> class /A type/. Implicit cast was performed by compiler. Constructors of
> both /A/and /Base/ are called but they do not exist and hence nothing
> happens.
 
Even if you don't write the constructor it exists. The constructor
we write (user-constructor) are not the real constructor.
The real constructor calls the inner objects constructor and
user-constructors and fills the vtable.
 

> 2) base->baseMethod() is called which calls method(), it prints "from
> Base".
 
No. "base->baseMethod();" prints "from A" . The vtable is ready at
this moment pointing to A::Method.
 

> 3) /delete/ calls the destructor of /Base/, it prints "from Base" again.
 
> But that does not happen.
 
It's dangerous and unclear to call virtual functions
at constructor and destructor.
 
I never do that I don't know if the standard gives you some
guarantee. I think vtable is "edited" officially at ctor and dtor.
You can explicitly call A::method() or Base::Method at ctor and dtor
is much more clear.
"Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jan 24 05:24AM -0800

On Wednesday, 24 January 2018 15:08:46 UTC+2, Thiago Adams wrote:
> guarantee. I think vtable is "edited" officially at ctor and dtor.
> You can explicitly call A::method() or Base::Method at ctor and dtor
> is much more clear.
 
Calling virtual functions from constructors and destructors is well
defined in C++ but your approach is more correct.
 
Basically at the time when base class subobject destructor is called
the more derived object is destroyed and so the base class is
most derived object at that moment and so Base::method() is
called as method().
 
However it is bad idea to do such "well-defined call" since people
will be confused with that and explicit fully qualified non-virtual
call Base::method() tells them lot better what is going on.
Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>: Jan 24 01:32PM

> It's dangerous and unclear to call virtual functions
> at constructor and destructor.
 
I don't think it's "dangerous" per se. The behavior is well defined:
The base class constructor will only call its own virtual function
implementations because the derived class has not been constructed yet.
The base class destructor will do likewise because the derived class
part has already been destructed.
 
It *can* lead to surprises when you aren't aware of this, sure, but
I wouldn't say it's "dangerous".
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>: Jan 24 03:46PM +0100

On 1/24/2018 2:08 PM, Thiago Adams wrote:
 
> It's dangerous and unclear to call virtual functions
> at constructor and destructor.
 
In Java and C#, yes. Not in C++.
 
 
Cheers & hth.,
 
- Alf
Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com>: Jan 24 09:33AM -0800

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 12:46:43 PM UTC-2, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
 
> > It's dangerous and unclear to call virtual functions
> > at constructor and destructor.
 
> In Java and C#, yes. Not in C++.
 
I would like to add that I also find confuse
and bad to call virtual functions from base class
in even in other functions than ctor and dtor.
 
The problem caused is code coupling. You create
and dependency and you cannot review the code
locally.
"Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jan 24 10:42AM -0800

On Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:33:27 UTC+2, Thiago Adams wrote:
 
> The problem caused is code coupling. You create
> and dependency and you cannot review the code
> locally.
 
I do not understand the point about review. When we have dynamically
polymorphic tree of classes then there likely is good reason for it.
That reason is typically that we want to use (and dynamically exchange)
different objects through same interface without knowing the actual
types.

There is relatively useful pattern to separate two concerns of such
interface. Convenient interface of base class (through what the users
of that polymorphic tree use it) is one concern, "template" of virtual
functions (that the derived classes have to fill) is other concern.
These concerns sometimes coincide but not as rule and even not too
commonly. When these are not same then it is easier to make the
"template" virtual functions private and call these from public
"interface" non-virtual functions of base class.
 
That pattern can be misused to over-engineering (as can every pattern
or feature) but it more commonly simplifies work. When we review
"interface" we can concentrate on how simple is to use it. When
we review implementation of derived class we are only concerned how
accurately the "template" is filled.
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Ernesto Preatoni, appassionato fin da giovane al mondo della finanza e al mercato azionario grazie all'amicizia e agli insegnamenti di Aldo Ravelli, per decenni numero uno della Borsa Italiana, inizia la sua carriera nel 1967, in qualità di consulente finanziario e promotore, venendo in breve tempo messo a capo della propria divisione di venditori.
 
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----
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E DELLA CRIMINALISSIMA, HITLERIANA, ^OCCULTA" LESBICA MARINA BERLUSCONI )
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NATO A MILANO IL 28.6.1965. NONCHE' MEGA RICICLA SOLDI MAFIOSI E POLITICO-CRIMINALI, OSSIA FRUTTO DI MEGA RUBERIE E MEGA MAZZETTE, RICEVUTE DA LEGA LADRONA ( 48 MILIONI RUBATI

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E DI MANDANTE DI CENTINAIA DI OMICIDI "MASCHERATI" DA FINTI MALORI, INCIDENTI, SUICIDI, COME, TANTO QUANTO, STRAGISTA SPAPPOLA MAGISTRATI, E NAZIFASCISTA DITTATORE E PEDOFILO: SILVIO BERLUSCONI

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http://www.repubblica.it/politica/2017/10/31/news/mafia_e_stragi_del_93_berlusconi_indagato-179825283/

https://ifarabutti.wordpress.com/tag/i-soldi-sporchi-di-berlusconi/

http://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubblica/archivio/repubblica/1984/10/04/ecco-come-riciclavano-soldi-sporchi.html

https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2011/05/19/silvio-riciclava-i-soldi-della-mafia/112167/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXsjFhA587I

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banca_Rasini

http://www.today.it/rassegna/berlusconi-mafia-emilio-fede.html )!

DICEVO, E' DAVVERO DA ARRESTARE UNA QUARTA VOLTA, E SUBITO, IL TERRORISTA DI ESTREMISSIMA DESTRA, SANGUINARIO ASSASSINO PAOLO BARRAI. NON PER NIENTE, GIA' STATO IN GALERA 3 VOLTE. OPINIONI TUTTE TERRIFICANTI SU DI LUI! MEGA TRUFFATORE E MEGA RICICLA CASH ASSASSINO VIA CRIMINALISSIMA BITINCUBATOR VENTURES GRONO (CH), VIA CRIMINALISSIMA BLOCKCHAININVEST LUGANO (CH), VIA CRIMINALISSIMA WMO SAGL LUGANO (CH), VIA CRIMINALISSIMA WORLD MAN OPPORTUNITIES LUGANO (CH), VIA CRIMINALISSIMA WMO SA PANAMA, VIA CRIMINALISSIMA BSI ITALIA SRL DI VIA SOCRATE 26 MILANO!

NOTO PEDOFIL-O-MOSESSUALE SODOMIZZA BAMBINI E RAGAZZINI! CACCIATO DA CITIBANK A SBERLE, PER MEGA FRODI CHE LI FACEVA! SBAGLIA SEMPRE IN BORSA! AZZERA I RISPARMI DI TANTISSIME PERSONE ( HA SUL GROPPONE 500 DENUNCE DI UOMINI E DONNE A CUI HA AZZERATO TUTTO QUEL CHE AVEVANO DI MEZZA EUROPA, NON SOLO DI TUTTA FASCIOMAFIOSA DITTATURA DI BERLUSCONIA-RENZUSCONIA-ETERNAMENTEP2ISTONIA)! FALSO&LADRO&TRUFFATORE! DIFFAMA SUL WEB A FINI "BERLUSCONAZISTI E PADANAZISTI"! FONDATORE DEI NUOVI MEG-A-SSASSINI TERRORISTI DI ESTREMISSIMA DESTRA: "I NAR SON TORNATI"! FONDATORE DEL, PROSSIMAMENTE, DI FREQUENTE OMICIDA: "KU KLUK KLAN PADANO"! CONDANNATO AL CARCERE BEN TRE VOLTE, FRA CUI A MILANO ED IN BRASILE ( A PORTO SEGURO: 8 ANNI E PURE PER PEDERASTIA OMOSESSUALE, RIPETO, PURE PER PEDERASTIA OMOSESSUALE)! MULTATO DA CONSOB 70.000 €! DESTABILIZZA L'ITALIA PER FILO NAZISTI SERVIZI SEGRETI DI MEZZO MONDO ( ITALIA, DICEVAMO, DA 30 ANNI, GIUSTISSIMAMENTE, NAZIONE SCHIFATA IN TUTTO IL MONDO, IN QUANTO FASCIOMAFIOSA DITTATURA DI BERLUSCONIA-RENZUSCONIA-ETERNAMENTEP2ISTONIA.. NON PER NIENTE, TUTTE LE PIU' GRANDI INDUSTRIE, IN ITALIA DA SECOLI, DALLA TIRANNI-A-SSASSINA DI BERLUSCONIA SON SCAPPATE, VEDI FIAT, PIRELLI, LUXOTTICA, MERLONI, QUASI TUTTA LA MODA, QUASI TUTTO L' ALIMENTARE, OLTRE CHE MIGLIAIA E MIGLIAIA DI ALTRE... E CHE SIA CHIARO PLS, CHE IDDIO BENEDICA I GRANDISSIMI PM CHE NON SOPPORTANO IL CANCRO DEL MONDO INTERO, SILVIO BERLUSCONI... COME HENRY WOODCOCK, ILDA BOCASSINI, NINO DI MATTEO, ROBERTO SCARPINATO, NICOLA GRATTERI E CHIUNQUE ALTRO DI QUESTA AMMIREVOLISSIMA CATEGORIA)!

FA CRIMINI SU CRIMINI E NAZI-ST-ALKING, IL MANDANTE DI OMICIDI, IL VERME ASSASSINO PAOLO PIETRO BARRAI! SU INTERNET! SU ORDINE DEI STRAGISTI, PEDOFILI SILVIO BERLUSCONI, PAOLO BERLUSCONI ED UBALDO LIVOLSI DI FININVEST ( CHE DA ANNI FANNO GLI ADOLPH HITLER MISTI AD AL CAPONE DEL WEB, ANCHE, MA DI CERTO, NON SOLO, CON QUEL VERME SCHIFOSO DI GIULIO OCCHIONERO

http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/01/10/news/cyberspionaggio_occhionero_chi_sono_i_due_arrestati-155752442/

http://roma.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/07/17/news/roma_-171015653/ ).

INNEGGIANTE ALLO SPAPPOLAMENTO DI MAGISTRATI SCOMODI "COME BERLUSCONI GRANDISSIMAMENTE FECE CON FALCONE E BORSELLINO"! PAROLE DETTE CENTO VOLTE
asetofsymbols@gmail.com: Jan 24 12:05AM -0800

Report something can be useful
translated by google:
 
Teofilatto

01/23/2018 at 11:38 PM

...It is simply absurd for us Catholics to make sure that they are born again. It is reborn with Baptism. And that's that. The **Creed** says it: Professed ONE ONLY Baptism. Pure madness is also to claim to achieve salvation by grace alone. The Catholic Catechism recites that the presumption to save oneself without merit is a **sin against the Holy Spirit.** If Vito does not share the Catholic doctrine, why does he come to sow discord outside his field?
Theophylact
asetofsymbols@gmail.com: Jan 24 12:23AM -0800

Possible I make one error but for me:
It is good one old paper bible catholic 1970 or first possible CEI
*never* follow the river, always be out of our times with old and proved from the time theology, or ideas on religion. For this is important the Catechism of Pio X, and the old tradition of the Roman Catholic Church *first* than Vatican II council
asetofsymbols@gmail.com: Jan 24 12:37AM -0800

One nowadays danger is ecumenism that goes against the First Commandment; one other danger is the make The human/humanity as god and adore him/community as God...
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 24 05:23AM -0500


> 01/23/2018 at 11:38 PM
 
> ...It is simply absurd for us Catholics to make sure that they are born again. It is reborn with Baptism. And that's that. The **Creed** says it: Professed ONE ONLY Baptism. Pure madness is also to claim to achieve salvation by grace alone. The Catholic Catechism recites that the presumption to save oneself without merit is a **sin against the Holy Spirit.** If Vito does not share the Catholic doctrine, why does he come to sow discord outside his field?
> Theophylact
 
If you study the teachings of Catholicism, compared to the literal
teachings found in the 5,000+ manuscripts used to create the Bible,
where all but around 10 agree with one another, you'll find that many
of the teachings of New Age religions, and aspects of Catholicism,
are taken from the few manuscripts which disagree.
 
A woman named Gail Riplinger did a study of this where she was able
to see the evolution in time away from the original intent of the
Biblical authors and the Holy Spirit. But God has also promised us
to preserve His Word, for all who will seek the truth that truth can
still be found.
 
Compare the teachings of the King James Version of the Bible, first
published in in 1611, to modern translations, and you'll see how
explicit and specific the changes in wording are. They are not just
trying to re-write the passages in our modern language without all of
the "thee"s and "ye"s and "sayest thou" type things, but they are
literally changing the intended meaning from the original language:
 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR_7tkC6ZiA&t=6m35s
 
It's rather shocking how subtle the enemy is. But if a person will
press in and seek the truth, God will reach into their life super-
naturally, and personally direct and guide them to the truth.
 
--
Thank you, | Indianapolis, Indiana | God is love -- 1 John 4:7-9
Rick C. Hodgin | http://www.libsf.org/ | http://tinyurl.com/yaogvqhj
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software: LSA, LSC, Debi, RDC/CAlive, ES/1, ES/2, VJr, VFrP, Logician
Hardware: Arxoda Desktop CPU, Arxita Embedded CPU, Arlina Compute FPGA
Gert-Jan de Vos <gert-jan.de.vos@onsneteindhoven.nl>: Jan 24 12:16AM -0800

On Tuesday, 23 January 2018 23:05:52 UTC+1, Öö Tiib wrote:
> {
> std::cout << "Error: " << strerror(errno) << '\n';
> }
 
Thank you, this helps. I'm a bit surprised that errno is still the best solution in C++ on Windows. When using exceptions I can only check errno
at the catch site and I run the risk of it being replaced during stack
unwinding.
"Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jan 24 02:21AM -0800

On Wednesday, 24 January 2018 10:16:55 UTC+2, Gert-Jan de Vos wrote:
> > std::cout << "Error: " << strerror(errno) << '\n';
> > }
 
> Thank you, this helps. I'm a bit surprised that errno is still the best solution in C++ on Windows.
 
It is "typically good enough" C++ with POSIX solution when there
is no need to squeeze out all performance. Best performance on
platforms with virtual memory system (like Windows) are memory
mapped files. Those mean lot of pain compared to fstream for
15%-50% better IO performance.
 
> When using exceptions I can only check errno
> at the catch site and I run the risk of it being replaced during stack
> unwinding.
 
That is indeed true when destructors will make calls that can fail
and so set errno. Do not let nonsense like std::ios_base::failure
to fly out of your module that deals with that stream; catch it
in interface and rethrow something better if you want your
functions to throw.
Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>: Jan 24 07:10AM

>> stop.
 
> If tyranny guides the course of a person's life, they wind up being
> led by the strongest bullies with the most evil guidance.
 
Then just fuck off, you asshole spammer.
Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>: Jan 24 07:08AM

> You are a coward and an identity thief.
 
And you are a fucking spammer and an asshole, so fuck off.
Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com>: Jan 23 10:25PM -0400

On 23/01/2018 22:01, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
 
> [H:\forums\clc++\031 locale]
> > a
> 1000000
 
OK try this one.
 
<=============================================================================>
#include <iostream> // std::cout
#include <locale> // std::locale
 
using namespace std;
 
class MyNumPunct : public numpunct<char>
{
protected:
virtual char do_thousands_sep() const { return ','; }
virtual string do_grouping() const { return "\03"; }
};
 
int main()
{
cout.imbue( locale( locale::classic(), new MyNumPunct ) );
cout << 123456789 << endl;
return 0;
}
 
<=============================================================================>
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>: Jan 24 06:58AM +0100

On 1/24/2018 3:25 AM, Real Troll wrote:
>     cout << 123456789 << endl;
>     return 0;
> }
 
Assuming that the code is technically correct (names, values) that
should work portably.
 
You just can't rely on defaults.
 
And note: there's no UTF-8 locale in Windows, and the only two portable
locale names, as I recall, are "" (user's natural locale) and "C".
 
 
Cheers!,
 
- Alf
Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee>: Jan 24 08:56AM +0200

On 24.01.2018 0:05, Real Troll wrote:
> architect at Microsoft where he has led the language extensions design
> of C++/CLI, C++/CX, C++ AMP, and other technologies". As you may know
> Herb is the boss of ISO C++ Standard!!!!!
 
Microsoft Visual C++ 2017.
 
The thousands separator is a space in my locale, just checked it in the
Control Panel. Wait, let's recheck ... no, it's not a space, it just
looks like a space, when copy-pasted it appears as char(-96), aka
character code 160. Apparently this has been intended to be the NBSP
character in ISO-Latin-1 or Unicode.
 
So it appears that although Windows has been internally using Unicode
for at least 20 years they have not yet figured out how to display it in
a console window - and are probably blaming me for, er, something.
 
BTW, using std::wcout instead of std::cout in the program or renaming
main() to wmain() did not make any difference.
 
Cheers
Paavo
 
PS. I'm sure Herb is doing his best but he cannot reinvent the whole
Windows.
arnuld <sunrise@invalid.address>: Jan 24 06:51AM

> ignored. (The peculiar case of char* is used to insert strings, as C
> uses that term, and is similar to %s in printf and the contents at the
> address are sent to the stream.)
 
Wow... the best explanation I have ever come across Thanks Barry
 
 
 
 
--
-- arnuld
http://lispmachine.wordpress.com/
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