| olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com>: Jul 15 03:16PM -0500 On 7/15/2022 3:06 PM, Skep Dick wrote: >> halt status of the previously "impossible" pathological inputs. > And I am refuting your refutation. > By showing you that if H can simulate P (with any input) to determine its result, then P can also simulate H (with any input) to determine its result. I am not solving the halting problem. I am refuting the conventional proofs of the halting theorem by showing how a Turing computable function correctly determines the halt status of the previously "impossible" pathologocal inputs. That is 100% of the entire scope of my project. References to things outside of this scope are not rebuttals. -- Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer |
| Skep Dick <skepdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 01:19PM -0700 On Friday, 15 July 2022 at 22:12:08 UTC+2, olcott wrote: > The DebugStep(*master_state, *slave_state, *decoded); > function of my x86utm operating system already embeds a world class x86 > emulator to provide its core functionality. Great! > infinite recursion this correctly emulated P never reaches the point in > its execution trace where it can possibly do the opposite of whatever > H(P,P) returns. Precisely! And the correctly emulated H(P,P) determines that P is stuck in an infinite loop, so the correctly emulated H(P,P) reports that P doesn't halt. And what does P (which is correctly emulating H(P,P) ) do when it hears that H says it won't halt? That's right! It halts. |
| Skep Dick <skepdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 01:23PM -0700 H is correctly emulating P (which is correctly emulating H (which is correctly emulating P (which is correctly emulating H( which is correctly emulating P(...))))) It's correct emulation all the way down. |
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| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 09:26PM +0100 On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 13:23:49 -0700 (PDT) > correctly emulating P (which is correctly emulating H( which is > correctly emulating P(...))))) > It's correct emulation all the way down. My approach doesn't suffer from this recursive pathology: https://github.com/i42output/halting-problem/blob/main/README.txt /Flibble |
| Skep Dick <skepdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 01:36PM -0700 On Friday, 15 July 2022 at 22:26:31 UTC+2, Mr Flibble wrote: > My approach doesn't suffer from this recursive pathology: The pathology doesn't arise from recursion. The pathology arises from the circular dependency between H and P. P's result depends on the return value of H. H's result depends on the return value of P. |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 09:39PM +0100 On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 13:36:25 -0700 (PDT) > The pathology arises from the circular dependency between H and P. > P's result depends on the return value of H. > H's result depends on the return value of P. My approach breaks that circular dependency. /Flibble |
| Skep Dick <skepdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 01:44PM -0700 On Friday, 15 July 2022 at 22:39:43 UTC+2, Mr Flibble wrote: > My approach breaks that circular dependency. No, it doesn't. When P calls H passing itself as a parameter you are right back to square one. |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 09:49PM +0100 On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 13:44:58 -0700 (PDT) > > My approach breaks that circular dependency. > No, it doesn't. When P calls H passing itself as a parameter you are > right back to square one. Nope. Try re-reading my solution. /Flibble |
| Skep Dick <skepdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 02:08PM -0700 On Friday, 15 July 2022 at 22:49:33 UTC+2, Mr Flibble wrote: > Nope. Try re-reading my solution. Your "solution" doesn't understand the problem. P is intentionally designed to be contrarian and do the exact opposite of whatever H says P will do. Perhaps programming languages are too confusing for you, so let me put it in terms you might understand. Any casual human interaction. We are sitting at the pub drinking beer and I surprise you with a really weird question! Why am I asking you this question? For no other reason that everyone in the pub says you are always right about everything! So here's my question: Am I going to kick you in the balls? But, of course, I have already decided how I am going to make my decision! Here is how... If you guess "yes" then I won't kick you in the balls. If you guess "no" then I will kick you in the balls. It's pretty obvious that if you have all of the above knowledge then you can certainly avoid a kick to the balls, but you can never make a correct prediction about what I am going to do! |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 10:10PM +0100 On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:08:39 -0700 (PDT) > It's pretty obvious that if you have all of the above knowledge then > you can certainly avoid a kick to the balls, but you can never make a > correct prediction about what I am going to do! Really bad analogy, bro. My solution is both novel and correct. /Flibble |
| Skep Dick <skepdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 02:14PM -0700 On Friday, 15 July 2022 at 23:10:37 UTC+2, Mr Flibble wrote: > Really bad analogy, bro. My solution is both novel and correct. It's a perfect analogy, bro. If you are "correct" in saying that I won't kick you in the balls then I am going to kick you in the balls. If you are "correct" in saying that I will kick you in the balls then I am not going to kick you in the balls. |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 10:20PM +0100 On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:14:14 -0700 (PDT) > then I am going to kick you in the balls. If you are "correct" in > saying that I will kick you in the balls then I am not going to kick > you in the balls. The contradiction of which you speak is [Strachey 1965]'s "Impossible Program" and my solution detects it and signals an exception because in my opinion it is INVALID input. /Flibble |
| Skep Dick <skepdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 02:27PM -0700 On Friday, 15 July 2022 at 23:20:35 UTC+2, Mr Flibble wrote: > The contradiction of which you speak is [Strachey 1965]'s "Impossible > Program" and my solution detects it and signals an exception because in > my opinion it is INVALID input. Yeah, your program is answering a completely different question to the one it needs to answer. It's supposed to answer the question "Will P halt?" It's answering the question "Is P valid?" |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 10:29PM +0100 On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:59 -0700 (PDT) > the one it needs to answer. > It's supposed to answer the question "Will P halt?" > It's answering the question "Is P valid?" It is answering the question "Is P valid and does is halt?" /Flibble |
| Skep Dick <skepdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 02:36PM -0700 On Friday, 15 July 2022 at 23:29:40 UTC+2, Mr Flibble wrote: > It is answering the question "Is P valid and does is halt?" Bullshit. That question has three possible answers: P is valid and it halts. P is valid and it doesn't halt. P is not valid. H returns a Boolean. Which return value represents the 3rd answer? |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 10:39PM +0100 On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:36:17 -0700 (PDT) > P is valid and it doesn't halt. > P is not valid. > H returns a Boolean. Which return value represents the 3rd answer? The 3rd answer is in the form a signaled exception much like the signaling NaN (sNaN) of IEEE 754 floating point. /Flibble |
| Big Dick <bigdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 10:42PM +0100 On 15/07/2022 22:27, Skep Dick wrote: > Yeah, your program is answering a completely different question to the one it needs to answer. Yes. We need the answer to a very simple question: Who has the biggest Dick in these newsgroups: Flibble, Olcott Skep Dick Big Dick When we have the answer to this then we can decide what can really Halt the crapware that is spouted from Olcott's mouth. He is likes sucking small boys cocks but does he also swallow the sperms? That also needs to be answered. |
| Skep Dick <skepdick22@gmail.com>: Jul 15 03:03PM -0700 On Friday, 15 July 2022 at 23:39:57 UTC+2, Mr Flibble wrote: > The 3rd answer is in the form a signaled exception much like the > signaling NaN (sNaN) of IEEE 754 floating point. Fuck me! You have absolutely no grasp of how information works. A Boolean function returns either a 1; or 0. A void function either throws an exception; or it doesn't. Both functions are communicating only 1 bit of information. |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 11:05PM +0100 On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 15:03:58 -0700 (PDT) > A Boolean function returns either a 1; or 0. > A void function either throws an exception; or it doesn't. > Both functions are communicating only 1 bit of information. bool foo() { if (valid()) { if (halts()) return true; else return false; } throw invalid(); } |
| Skep Dick <skepdick23@gmail.com>: Jul 15 03:43PM -0700 On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 12:06:12 AM UTC+2, Mr Flibble wrote: > } > throw invalid(); > } You seem really skilled and incredibly determined to confuse yourself with syntactic irrelevancies. Both implementations of halt() will produce an answer to the question "Does X halt?" if you just fill in the "magic-you-can't-explain" with the relevant logic. void halt(x){ if(magic-you-can't-explain) throw yes(); else throw no(); } bool halt(x){ if(magic-you-can't-explain) return true; else return false; } |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 11:47PM +0100 On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 15:43:07 -0700 (PDT) > else > return false; > } bool halt(x) { if (valid(x)) { if (halts(x)) return true; else return false; } throw invalid(); } My solution isn't magic and I can explain it; in fact I already have: my proposal is novel, simple and to the point. /Flibble |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>: Jul 15 11:20PM +0100 I hereby introduce the sNaP, the "signaling Not a Program" exception to be raised in the event a [Strachey 1965] "Impossible Program" is passed to a signaling halt decider. The sNaP is analogous to the sNaN of IEEE 754 floating point to signify the result of a mathematical operation is undefined. As an added bonus "sNaP" is quite catchy. :D Copyright 2022 Mr Flibble |
| olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com>: Jul 15 05:30PM -0500 On 7/15/2022 5:20 PM, Mr Flibble wrote: > operation is undefined. > As an added bonus "sNaP" is quite catchy. :D > Copyright 2022 Mr Flibble That sounds snappy. -- Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer |
| "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com>: Jul 15 11:08PM +0200 On 15 Jul 2022 14:02, Juha Nieminen wrote: > we cannot assume that 'v2' will be empty. > Since std::move() does not guarantee that the contents will be > moved, isn't it quite a misnomer? Yes, it misleads people. In particular students. > std::to_rvalue() might be more cryptic, but at least it would > express much better what it's actually doing. Well, consider `std::to_movable`. It would IMO be a good alternate or replacement name for `std::move`, because unlike the verb it just expresses a potential, a potential that may or may not manifest depending on the types. Unfortunately the shorter name `std::movable` is now taken by a C++20 concept. - Alf |
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