Monday, November 23, 2015

Digest for comp.lang.c++@googlegroups.com - 15 updates in 6 topics

Puppet_Sock <puppet_sock@hotmail.com>: Nov 23 07:22AM -0800

So, some time ago (grumble mumble years...) I read John Lakos
_Large Scale C++_. The only thing is, it was mumble years ago,
and some things have changed in the intervening time. I thought
the advice he gave good, and the book is there on my shelf still.
But I did wish he would have done more with the modern features
of the language. I am currently in the very early stages of
what could, potentially, turn into a huge project. (Oh, how I
wish!) So advice that will get me off on the right foot would
be good about now.
 
So I noticed a few years ago (three? four?) that he had a new
edition listed on Amazon as coming soon. So I started watching
for it to be available. But the release date just keeps getting
pushed back. And pushed back. And pushed back some more.
 
What's up with that?
 
And, along the way, any suggestions on sources of good advice
on writing very large C++ programs would be gladly accepted.
If the project I am trying to sell goes ahead, it could easily
become very large.
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>: Nov 23 05:38PM +0100

On 11/23/2015 4:22 PM, Puppet_Sock wrote:
> [snip]
> And, along the way, any suggestions on sources of good advice
> on writing very large C++ programs would be gladly accepted.
 
Perhaps the most important thing to note is that a large scale system is
a team effort.
 
So it's very much about leading a team and dealing with economy and
politics.
 
* * *
 
That said, since you mention Lakos, Lakos' external include guards never
did become mainstream, and I suggest you avoid them. Even ordinary
internal include guards can be problematic. I suggest using now de facto
standard "#pragma once".
 
For this and some other like issues you need clear project coding
guidelines.
 
You would probably not go very wrong in adopting the coding guidelines
book by Alexandrescu and Sutter, perhaps with some adjustments.
 
* * *
 
With a large scale project source files of the same name might yield
conflicting object code file names. So it can be an idea to replicate
the source folder structure for the object code files. This is not the
default for e.g. a Visual Studio project, and one has to configure it
using the folder path macros: there's no simple option for it.
 
Your project team may need a build server farm. Nowadays there are a
lots of systems for helping with performing builds. I don't know much
about it, except that I know I would have to look into that if I became
involved in some large scale development again.
 
You might assign one person to deal exclusively with tooling, including
build system.
 
* * *
 
You're probably aware that you need a source code control system. But
possibly it's not clear enough that you also need a defect handling
system, that supports bug reporting, assignment of responsibility,
follow-up, and so on. The only free one that I remember is Bugzilla,
it's possibly still around.
 
Anyway, you will probably need a web server for this, with a domain, and
someone to handle that side of things.
 
I doubt that Lakos reflected on that (disclaimer: I haven't read the
book) ;-)
 
Cheers & hth.,
 
- Alf
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>: Nov 23 04:45PM

On Mon, 2015-11-23, Puppet_Sock wrote:
> for it to be available. But the release date just keeps getting
> pushed back. And pushed back. And pushed back some more.
 
> What's up with that?
 
No idea, but I'm interested. I haven't read the book, but it was
mentioned here now and then many years ago -- with the warning that it
had aged quite a bit.
 
> on writing very large C++ programs would be gladly accepted.
> If the project I am trying to sell goes ahead, it could easily
> become very large.
 
My first instinct (which may be wrong in this case) is that that's a
warning signal. It's better if you can keep it smaller than "very
large", or split it into smaller parts ...
 
/Jorgen
 
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com>: Nov 23 12:18PM -0600

On 11/23/2015 10:38 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
 
> I doubt that Lakos reflected on that (disclaimer: I haven't read the book) ;-)
 
> Cheers & hth.,
 
> - Alf
 
User Interface platform is also a critical decision nowadays: desktop, mobile, web with many variations in each.
 
Lynn
woodbrian77@gmail.com: Nov 23 10:21AM -0800

On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 10:46:11 AM UTC-6, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
 
> No idea, but I'm interested. I haven't read the book, but it was
> mentioned here now and then many years ago -- with the warning that it
> had aged quite a bit.
 
He has been interviewed a number of times and I've
watched some of them:
 
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=john+lakos+interview&ia=videos
 
IIRC, he mentions the book in at least one interview and
he still wants to finish it, but has been delayed by a
number of things.
 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
woodbrian77@gmail.com: Nov 23 11:04AM -0800


> IIRC, he mentions the book in at least one interview and
> he still wants to finish it, but has been delayed by a
> number of things.
 
I watched some of this interview again
 
https://meetingcpp.com/index.php/br/items/an-interview-with-john-lakos.html
and he talks about the original book and how he's working on a
trilogy to follow that book. The last few minutes of that
interview he says he's almost done with the first book of the
trilogy.
 
 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - Bless G-d, America.
Psalms 100:4 "Enter His gates with thanksgiving And
His courts with praise. Give thanks to Him, bless His Name."
 
http://webEbenezer.net
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>: Nov 23 09:47PM

On Mon, 2015-11-23, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
...
> With a large scale project source files of the same name might yield
> conflicting object code file names. So it can be an idea to replicate
> the source folder structure for the object code files.
 
That seemed weird to me, but only because it seemed so obvious to me.
If you have code in foo/ and bar/ and put object code in obj/, of
course you're gambling on that there are no duplicate file names in
foo and bar!
 
> This is not the default for e.g. a Visual Studio project, and one
> has to configure it using the folder path macros: there's no simple
> option for it.
 
Ah, ok. It's pretty natural with make; that's probably why I reacted.
One single Makefile, and remember to treat the directory name as just
part of the file name -- and you're more or less home free.
 
(Not wishing to slam VS. I'm happy that it can be configured to do
the right thing.)
 
/Jorgen
 
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
"Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Nov 23 02:21PM -0800

On Monday, 23 November 2015 23:48:11 UTC+2, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> If you have code in foo/ and bar/ and put object code in obj/, of
> course you're gambling on that there are no duplicate file names in
> foo and bar!
 
On any case the issue of naming deserves attention in large projects.
Source files that have same name are typically accompanied with include
files that have same name and that will eventually cause some confusion
for some members of team. It is near hopeless to try to make new
big C++ team out of highly skilled specialists.
 
> part of the file name -- and you're more or less home free.
 
> (Not wishing to slam VS. I'm happy that it can be configured to do
> the right thing.)
 
VS deserves slamming. It deliberately and automatically generates things
that are good only for small toy projects. Also (unlike makefiles) its
pile of xml project files are by default awful to look in and painful
to manage. MS own tools are sometimes confused with those. Even in house
MS (or at least several teams of it) use makefiles.
Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>: Nov 24 11:41AM +1300

嘱 Tiib wrote:
> pile of xml project files are by default awful to look in and painful
> to manage. MS own tools are sometimes confused with those. Even in house
> MS (or at least several teams of it) use makefiles.
 
I disagree with you regarding the XML project files. On a recent
(embedded) project we used VS to build projects and I wrote a tool to
parse the solution and project XML files so we could generate makefiles.
The VS XML file formats are simple and consistent.
 
 
--
Ian Collins
markrainsun11@gmail.com: Nov 23 02:00PM -0800

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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal): Nov 23 02:53PM

>this function with an unknown number of arguments of unknown type"
>and "(void)" explicitly means "takes no arguments". In C++ the (void)
>is totally unnecessary.
 
Yet, I've been using int f(void) since 1989 with C++ and
see no reason to stop. I prefer it over int f(). YMMV.
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>: Nov 23 12:40AM +0100

On 11/22/2015 2:43 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> {
> return "RefiGroup";
> }
 
I just coded up the following yet again.
 
This code works with MinGW g++ and Visual C++, yielding the same result
with both compilers. Since it works with g++ it presumably works also
with clang, at least if the check for __GNUC__ is appropriately modified
(if necessary). And since it works with Visual C++ it presumably also
works with the Intel compiler for Windows.
 
I'm pretty sure it won't work directly with IBM's compiler, and would be
interested if anyone could post code for that compiler.
 
 
<file "demangled.hpp">
#pragma once
// Copyright © 2015 Alf P. Steinbach. Boost license version 1.0.
 
#include <string>
 
#include <typeinfo>
#ifdef __GNUC__
# include <cxxabi.h>
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