Friday, April 3, 2020

Digest for comp.lang.c++@googlegroups.com - 18 updates in 3 topics

Real Troll <Real.Troll@Trolls.com>: Apr 03 11:30AM -0400

On 03/04/2020 12:38, Gerry Wolff wrote:
 
> * If you would be willing to help, please get in touch via jgw@cognitionresearch.org. Please say something briefly about your experience with Visual C++, and the time you would have available to work on what I've described.
 
> Many thanks!
 
> Gerry Wolff
 
I suggest try using Embarcadero's C++ builder.  There is a community
edition that users can download free of charge.
 
<https://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder/starter>
 
You could also create a free account on github and the community members
here or elsewhere can have a look at the code and suggest changes.  You
keep the control on the code that goes in the final product but
community members can make suggestions.
 
<https://github.com/features>
 
Other newsgroups are:
 
comp.lang.c++
 
You could cross-post your posts to that other group like I have done here.
Gerry Wolff <gerrywolff65@gmail.com>: Apr 03 09:56AM -0700

In case of doubt, here is the message I previously posted on alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++.
 
I have a general problem in developing C++ programs, and I would be glad of help. Let me explain:
 
* In about 2004 to 2005, I developed a largish program with no significant problems using C++ in MS Visual Studio.
 
* Now I want to develop the program some more but I find that C++ in MS Visual Studio is very much more complicated than it was before, and very difficult to use. Many 'errors' get flagged in a program that was working well and I am finding it very difficult to clear them.
 
* To be more precise, I need help with two programs: the original program and a much simpler program that I need for the new project. That second program is causing me problems as well.
 
* It would be very helpful if someone with relevant skills could help get things working again. If you know of a better IDE, please let me know.
 
* It would be helpful but not essential if we were both in the same time zone, or close. I'm in the UK in the GMT time zone (latitude 0).
 
* This project is part of a long-time research programme, and I would of course give credit for help with programming in papers arising from the new research.
 
* Information about the research program may be seen on http://www.cognitionresearch.org/sp.htm, and more briefly on http://www.cognitionresearch.org/extras/key_publications.htm.

* If you would be willing to help, please get in touch via jgw@cognitionresearch.org. Please say something briefly about your experience with Visual C++, and the time you would have available to work on what I've described.
 
Many thanks!
 
Gerry Wolff
--
Dr J. Gerard Wolff PhD CEng MIEEE MBCS
CognitionResearch.org
jgw@cognitionresearch.org; +44 (0) 1248 712962, +44 (0) 7746 290775; Twitter: @gerrywolff65, Skype: gerry.wolff; Web: www.cognitionresearch.org; CognitionResearch.org, Menai Bridge, UK.
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>: Apr 03 06:18PM +0100

On 03/04/2020 17:56, Gerry Wolff wrote:
 
> * Information about the research program may be seen on http://www.cognitionresearch.org/sp.htm, and more briefly on http://www.cognitionresearch.org/extras/key_publications.htm.
 
> * If you would be willing to help, please get in touch via jgw@cognitionresearch.org. Please say something briefly about your experience with Visual C++, and the time you would have available to work on what I've described.
 
> Many thanks!
 
Why can't you do it yourself? Afraid of learning new things? As you fix the errors you will learn modern C++: something that won't happen if you get someone else to do it.
 
/Flibble
 
--
"Snakes didn't evolve, instead talking snakes with legs changed into snakes." - Rick C. Hodgin
 
"You won't burn in hell. But be nice anyway." – Ricky Gervais
 
"I see Atheists are fighting and killing each other again, over who doesn't believe in any God the most. Oh, no..wait.. that never happens." – Ricky Gervais
 
"Suppose it's all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are confronted by God," Byrne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I'd say, bone cancer in children? What's that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say."
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>: Apr 03 07:35PM +0200

I just tried to compile your SP62-program. There are a lot assignments
of string-literals to non-const string-pointers. In C++ every string
-literal has the type "const char *"; I don't know if this has ever
been different in earlier versions of C++, but earlier versions of
MSVC accepted the assignment of string-literals to char-pointers. So
you have to make your c-strings const. And there are a lot of erors
which advise you to use safe versions of C-runtime-functions which
are not prone to buffer-overflows. You can disable this errors by
defining _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS or you could use the safer versions
the error-message shows you.
Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>: Apr 03 12:57PM -0500

Mr Flibble wrote:
> > before, and very difficult to use. Many "errors" get flagged in
> > a program that was working well and I am finding it very difficult
> > to clear them.
 
Versionitis; a virus that emerged out of the murk of Micro$soft.
 
 
> > * It would be very helpful if someone with relevant skills could
> > help get things working again. If you know of a better IDE, please
> > let me know.
 
What you need is a stable language. Or perhaps... downgrade to the
version you know, and stay there.
 
A better system would help too, though if your projects need the M$
environment, you're pretty much locked in.
 
> > your experience with Visual C++, and the time you would have
> > available to work on what I???ve described.
 
> Why can't you do it yourself?
 
Why assume a lack of ability?
 
> Afraid of learning new things? As you
> fix the errors you will learn modern C++:
 
C++ has become a moving target and a profligate producer of maintenance
nightmares. My own projects are okay so far, but I've had to make so
many fatuous changes that I'm now actively looking for languages to
port them to.
 
----snip----
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>: Apr 03 08:01PM +0200

> been different in earlier versions of C++, but earlier versions of
> MSVC accepted the assignment of string-literals to char-pointers.
> So you have to make your c-strings const. ...
 
You could set up a VC++ console project and disable conformance mode
in the project-settings. Along with the the define I told about you
would get away almost every error.
And you're using the function tzset which should be replaced with
_tzset.
And you're using a lot of uninized variables as function-parameters;
that's a lot of bugs.
Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com>: Apr 03 06:17PM

> nightmares. My own projects are okay so far, but I've had to make so
> many fatuous changes that I'm now actively looking for languages to
> port them to.
 
Which one? C++ is backward compatible so far I see.
 
> ----snip----
Perhaps M$ compiler makes problems, but that is because that is M$...
 
 
--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
U ničemu ja ne uživam kao u svom statusu INVALIDA -- Zli Zec
Svi smo svedoci - oko 3 godine intenzivne propagande je dovoljno da jedan narod poludi -- Zli Zec
Na divljem zapadu i nije bilo tako puno nasilja, upravo zato jer su svi
bili naoruzani. -- Mladen Gogala
James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>: Apr 03 02:58PM -0400

On 4/3/20 1:57 PM, Ned Latham wrote:
> Mr Flibble wrote:
>> Gerry Wolff wrote:
...
>>> a program that was working well and I am finding it very difficult
>>> to clear them.
 
> Versionitis; a virus that emerged out of the murk of Micro$soft.
 
Your historical view is a bit short-sighted. Versionitis predates
Microsoft. It even predates computers - people were coming out with new
versions of things too fast for the users to keep up with them even
before computers became available to speed up the process.
 
...
>> Why can't you do it yourself?
 
> Why assume a lack of ability?
 
"... I am finding it very difficult ..." is a bit of a clue.
Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de>: Apr 03 10:01PM +0200

Am 03.04.20 um 19:35 schrieb Bonita Montero:
> are not prone to buffer-overflows. You can disable this errors by
> defining _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS or you could use the safer versions
> the error-message shows you.
 
I also tried to compile the SP71 program. There were only 7 real errors.
There is the idiotic for-scoping that was wrong in VC6. In VC 6, if you
write
 
for (int i=0; i<n; i++) { }
 
then the i variable belongs to the outer block, whereas in C++ since
1998 it belongs to the for block. So shift this to
 
int i;
for (i=0; i<n; i++) { }
 
to get the same effect. Then there was an default-to-int static variable
without a type; even the compiler knew how to fix it:
 
 
SP71_lib.cpp:16155:9: error: C++ requires a type specifier for all
declarations
static column_counter = 0 ;
~~~~~~ ^
1 error generated.
 
and a missing comma in a sequence of declarations; I wonder how that
ever could compile.
 
Now it compiles on clang, but with 283 warnings, of course. Here's the diff:
 
Apfelkiste:Tests chris$ diff -r SP_new/ SP
diff -r SP_new/SP71_head.h SP/SP71_head.h
660c660
< {symbol *s ; int i; for (i = 0; i < sequence_depth; i++)
---
> {symbol *s ; for (int i = 0; i < sequence_depth; i++)
diff -r SP_new/SP71_lib.cpp SP/SP71_lib.cpp
2347c2347
< for (int i = 1; i < start_col_2; i++)
---
> for (i = 1; i < start_col_2; i++)
12200c12200
< *t_pattern = get_row_pattern(bottom_row),
---
> *t_pattern = get_row_pattern(bottom_row)
16155c16155
< static int column_counter = 0 ;
---
> static column_counter = 0 ;
Only in SP_new/: a.out
Apfelkiste:Tests chris$
 
 
Christian
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>: Apr 03 09:05PM +0100

On 03/04/2020 21:01, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
>> defining _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS or you could use the safer versions
>> the error-message shows you.
 
> I also tried to compile the SP71 program. There were only 7 real errors. There is the idiotic for-scoping that was wrong in VC6. In VC 6, if you write
 
VC6 is NOT a C++ compiler, it is VC6 compiler.
 
/Flibble
 
--
"Snakes didn't evolve, instead talking snakes with legs changed into snakes." - Rick C. Hodgin
 
"You won't burn in hell. But be nice anyway." – Ricky Gervais
 
"I see Atheists are fighting and killing each other again, over who doesn't believe in any God the most. Oh, no..wait.. that never happens." – Ricky Gervais
 
"Suppose it's all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are confronted by God," Byrne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I'd say, bone cancer in children? What's that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say."
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>: Apr 03 08:05PM

On Fri, 2020-04-03, Ned Latham wrote:
...
> nightmares. My own projects are okay so far, but I've had to make so
> many fatuous changes that I'm now actively looking for languages to
> port them to.
 
Which changes would that be? Between, say a decent version two
decades ago (C++98) and a well-supported one today (C++11)?
 
I can imagine that there have been painful changes to /Visual Studio/
during these decades, but they would be about deviations from the
standard, extensions to the language, and bugs it used to allow.
GCC had that last kind, too.
 
/Jorgen
 
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>: Apr 03 04:41PM -0500

Melzzzzz wrote:
>> many fatuous changes that I'm now actively looking for languages to
>> port them to.
 
> Which one? C++ is backward compatible so far I see.
 
GCC. C++ is *not* backwards compatible.
 
> Perhaps M$ compiler makes problems, but that is because that is M$...
 
That's a given, but in this case an element of the M$ disease has been
incorporated into C++. Thay have, and have had for decades now, undue
influence with standards committees.
Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>: Apr 03 04:45PM -0500

James Kuyper wrote:
 
> > Versionitis; a virus that emerged out of the murk of Micro$soft.
 
> Your historical view is a bit short-sighted. Versionitis predates
> Microsoft.
 
Wrong. That was a different phenomenon called "planned obsolenence".
 
----snip----
Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>: Apr 03 04:58PM -0500

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> > port them to.
 
> Which changes would that be? Between, say a decent version two
> decades ago (C++98) and a well-supported one today (C++11)?
 
Exception throwing: once an option, now the default.
"namespace": once an option, now a requirement.
 
I suppose I should confess that the bugs in C(++) are also part of my
problem with C++. They are the defective string definition in C, and
the defective post-increment semenatic of C++.
 
----snip----
Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>: Apr 03 05:50PM -0500

Ned Latham wrote:
 
> I suppose I should confess that the bugs in C(++) are also part of my
> problem with C++. They are the defective string definition in C, and
> the defective post-increment semenatic of C++.
 
Sorry. "semantic".
Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz>: Apr 03 05:52PM -0500

Ned Latham wrote:
 
> > Your historical view is a bit short-sighted. Versionitis predates
> > Microsoft.
 
> Wrong. That was a different phenomenon called "planned obsolenence".
 
Sorry. "obsolescence"
Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>: Apr 03 05:34PM +0100


> I have updated my draft list. Most recent entries at the top.
 
Useful. Thanks.
 
--
Ben.
ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram): Apr 03 04:16PM

I have updated my draft list. Most recent entries at the top.
 
date name revises comments (target, similarity)
 
2020 (fut.) 14882,6 14882,5 C++20
2020-01-14 n4849 n4842 C++20
2019-11-27 n4842 n4835 C++20
2019-10-08 n4835 n4830 C++20
2019-08-15 n4830 n4820 C++20
2019-06-17 n4820 n4810 C++20
2019-03-15 n4810 n4800 C++20
2019-01-21 n4800 n4791 C++20
2018-12-07 n4791 n4778 C++20, draft now with Ranges
2018-10-08 n4778 n4762 C++20
2018-07-07 n4762 n4750 C++20
2018-05-07 n4750 n4741 C++20
2018-04-02 n4741 n4727 C++20
2018-02-12 n4727 n4713 C++20
2017-11-27 n4713 n4700 C++20
2017-12 14882,5 14882,4 C++17= approved 2017-09-06
2017-10-16 n4700 n4687 C++20
2017-07-30 n4687 n4659 C++20
2017-03-21 n4660 - C++17*
2017-03-21 n4659 n4640 C++17*
2017-02-06 n4640 n4618 C++17
2016-11-28 n4618 n4606 C++17
2016-07-12 n4606 n4594 C++17
2016-07-12 n4604 - C++17
2016-05-30 n4594 n4582 C++17
2016-03-19 n4582 n4567 C++17
2015-11-09 n4567 n4527 C++17
2015-05-22 n4527 n4431 C++17
2015-04-10 n4421 n4296 C++17
2014-12-15 14882,4 C++14 (saw it only in 2015-01!)
2014-11-19 n4296 n4140 C++17
2014-10-07 N4140 N3936 C++14*?
2014-09-02 n4141 - C++14*
2014-03-02 N3936? N3797 C++14
2013-10-13 N3797 N3691 C++14
2013-05-16 N3691 N3485 C++14
2013-05-15 N3690 - C++14
2013 TCPL4 ISBN 0-321-56384-0
2012-11-02 n3485 n3376 C++14
2012-02-28 n3376 n3337 C++14
2012-01-16 n3337 n3291 C++11 github
2011-09 14882,3 C++11, approved 2011-08-12
2011-04 n3291 N3092? C++11*
2011-04-11 n3290 C++11*
2010-03-26 n3092 C++1x
2008-10-08 n2800 C++1x
2007-10-22 n2461 C++0x
2006-11-06 n2135 C++0x
2005-10-19 n1905 C++0x
2005-04-27 N1804=05-0064 C++0x
2004-11-05 N1733=04-0173 C++0x
2004-05-19? N1655=04-0095 C++0x
2004-04-11 N1638=04-0078 C++0x
2004-02-06? N1577=04-0017 C++0x
2004 2004 Performance TR (ISO/IEC PDTR 18015)
2004 2004 Library extension TR1 (ISO/IEC PDTR 19768)
2003-10-15 14882,2 C++98, 2nd Ed
2000 TCPLS ISBN 0-201-70073-5
1998-09-01 14882,1 C++98, 1st Ed, ANSI approval 1998-07-27
1997 TCPL3 ISBN 0-201-88954-4
1991 TCPL2 ISBN 0-201-53992-6
1989 Cfront 3.0
1990 ARM ISBN 0-201-51459-1
1990 ANSI committee
1989 Cfront 2.0
1987 Cfront 1.2
1987 GNU C++ (first)
1985/6? TCPL1 ISBN 0-201-12078-X
1986 Cfront 1.1
1985 Cfront 1.0
1984 Ref man C with classes
1982 Ref man C with classes
1979 impl1 C with classes
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