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* Need help with printing Unicode! (C++ on CentOS) - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/e7dff48651d7be5d?hl=en
* please help me in this area(returning class using recursion)...... - 3
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http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/738a7434e286543a?hl=en
* canceling noncopyable feature - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/5add783081f15e0e?hl=en
* wiki on basic screening interview questions - 1 messages, 1 author
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Need help with printing Unicode! (C++ on CentOS)
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/e7dff48651d7be5d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 10:08 am
From: Paavo Helde
Zerex71 <mfeher1971@gmail.com> kirjutas:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm sure this has been addressed before but I've hunted all over the
> web and no one seems to provide a comprehensive answer. I just want
> to do one thing: Under CentOS, in a simple C++ program, I'd like to be
> able to print Unicode characters to a console output. For example,
> I'd like to print the musical flat, natural, and sharp signs.
>
> Here's what I've done so far:
> 1. Using Eclipse, created a small C++ console project.
> 2. Declare three chars, each of type wchar_t, and assigned them their
> Unicode values (0x266d, 0x266e, 0x266f).
> 3. Attempted to print them out using wprintf().
> 4. Set my output console to a font which can represent the characters
> (glyphs?) - Lucida Console
I am not not sure about CentOS, but in Linux generally UTF-8 is used. One
should have an UTF8 locale (e.g. LANG=en_US.utf8). If your code
internally uses wchar_t, then it should be converted to UTF-8 before
output. I am not sure if wprintf() or wcout() can do that automatically.
In our software we use UTF-8 and std::string internally, and it is
working perfectly in Linux.
hth
Paavo
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 10:58 am
From: Zerex71
On Aug 28, 1:08 pm, Paavo Helde <pa...@nospam.please.ee> wrote:
> Zerex71 <mfeher1...@gmail.com> kirjutas:
>
> > Greetings,
>
> > I'm sure this has been addressed before but I've hunted all over the
> > web and no one seems to provide a comprehensive answer. I just want
> > to do one thing: Under CentOS, in a simple C++ program, I'd like to be
> > able to print Unicode characters to a console output. For example,
> > I'd like to print the musical flat, natural, and sharp signs.
>
> > Here's what I've done so far:
> > 1. Using Eclipse, created a small C++ console project.
> > 2. Declare three chars, each of type wchar_t, and assigned them their
> > Unicode values (0x266d, 0x266e, 0x266f).
> > 3. Attempted to print them out using wprintf().
> > 4. Set my output console to a font which can represent the characters
> > (glyphs?) - Lucida Console
>
> I am not not sure about CentOS, but in Linux generally UTF-8 is used. One
> should have an UTF8 locale (e.g. LANG=en_US.utf8). If your code
> internally uses wchar_t, then it should be converted to UTF-8 before
> output. I am not sure if wprintf() or wcout() can do that automatically.
> In our software we use UTF-8 and std::string internally, and it is
> working perfectly in Linux.
>
> hth
> Paavo
Hi Paavo,
Here's my locale setting:
(mfeher) mfeher-l4 [~] > locale
LANG=en_US.UTF-8
LC_CTYPE="C"
LC_NUMERIC="C"
LC_TIME="C"
LC_COLLATE="C"
LC_MONETARY="C"
LC_MESSAGES="C"
LC_PAPER="C"
LC_NAME="C"
LC_ADDRESS="C"
LC_TELEPHONE="C"
LC_MEASUREMENT="C"
LC_IDENTIFICATION="C"
LC_ALL=C
I was under the impression that I had more of an "environment setup"
issue than a coding issue, i.e. I was unaware that I had to do
anything more to the code than change from cout/printf to wprintf.
Also, from a brief, brief reading of all this material on the
Internet, I don't want UTF-8 because that's too small to hold the
character codes I wish to print. Here's the code I am trying:
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
int main() {
// cout << "Testing Unicode" << endl; // prints Testing Unicode
// If you try to mix Unicode printing with non-Unicode printing, the
switch
// causes you to lose output!
setlocale(LC_ALL, ""); // Does nothing
// Let's check our orientation...it never fails
if (fwide(stdout, 1) < 0)
{
cerr << "ERROR: Output not set to wide. Exiting..." << endl;
return -1;
}
// Declare a Unicode character and try to print it out
wchar_t mychar = 0x266d; // The music flat sign
wprintf(L"Here's mychar: %lc\n", mychar);
return 0;
}
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 11:00 am
From: Juha Nieminen
Zerex71 wrote:
> I'm sure this has been addressed before but I've hunted all over the
> web and no one seems to provide a comprehensive answer. I just want
> to do one thing: Under CentOS, in a simple C++ program, I'd like to be
> able to print Unicode characters to a console output. For example,
> I'd like to print the musical flat, natural, and sharp signs.
>
> Here's what I've done so far:
> 1. Using Eclipse, created a small C++ console project.
> 2. Declare three chars, each of type wchar_t, and assigned them their
> Unicode values (0x266d, 0x266e, 0x266f).
> 3. Attempted to print them out using wprintf().
You can't output raw unicode values and expect your terminal emulator
to understand them. You have to output them *encoded* with the same
encoding scheme as your terminal. Usually this will be UTF-8.
Either output the encoded values directly, or use an UTF-8 encoding
library to convert your raw unicode values into UTF-8 codes. One such
library is, for example: http://utfcpp.sourceforge.net/
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 11:03 am
From: Juha Nieminen
Zerex71 wrote:
> I don't want UTF-8 because that's too small to hold the
> character codes I wish to print.
I think you have a misunderstanding of what UTF-8 is. UTF-8 can
represent the entire unicode address space.
You might not "want" it, but you have no option because your terminal
emulator most probably wants UTF-8. It doesn't want raw unicode values.
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 11:08 am
From: Zerex71
On Aug 28, 2:03 pm, Juha Nieminen <nos...@thanks.invalid> wrote:
> Zerex71 wrote:
> > I don't want UTF-8 because that's too small to hold the
> > character codes I wish to print.
>
> I think you have a misunderstanding of what UTF-8 is. UTF-8 can
> represent the entire unicode address space.
>
> You might not "want" it, but you have no option because your terminal
> emulator most probably wants UTF-8. It doesn't want raw unicode values.
I probably do have a misunderstanding, but like I said, it appears
that UTF-8 is "smaller" or more restrictive than UTF-16, UTF-32, etc.
Is that the case? If the -8 means 8 bits, there's no way I can
convert numbers in the upper ranges (e.g. 0x266d) into 8 bits and even
expect to get my glyphs out on-screen.
So it sounds like my terminal/environment is set up to UTF-8, and I
just have to add a little code to my program before, during, or after
the wprintf() call to make sure they are displayed properly on-
screen. At least this is what I gather from your responses.
Mike
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 2:36 pm
From: Paavo Helde
Zerex71 <mfeher1971@gmail.com> kirjutas:
> On Aug 28, 2:03 pm, Juha Nieminen <nos...@thanks.invalid> wrote:
>> Zerex71 wrote:
>> > I don't want UTF-8 because that's too small to hold the
>> > character codes I wish to print.
>>
>> I think you have a misunderstanding of what UTF-8 is. UTF-8 can
>> represent the entire unicode address space.
>>
>> You might not "want" it, but you have no option because your
terminal
>> emulator most probably wants UTF-8. It doesn't want raw unicode
values.
>
> I probably do have a misunderstanding, but like I said, it appears
> that UTF-8 is "smaller" or more restrictive than UTF-16, UTF-32, etc.
> Is that the case? If the -8 means 8 bits, there's no way I can
> convert numbers in the upper ranges (e.g. 0x266d) into 8 bits and even
> expect to get my glyphs out on-screen.
You are mistaken. Larger Unicode code values are encoded as multibyte
sequences in UTF-8. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utf-8
Paavo
==============================================================================
TOPIC: please help me in this area(returning class using recursion)......
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/738a7434e286543a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 10:49 am
From: Juha Nieminen
Francesco wrote:
>>> i.e it evaluates "s*p" first and "(p=s)" last,
>> No.
>
> As I said above, it does so, on my GCC.
Just because gcc happens to do it that way doesn't mean that it
couldn't do it in some other way, while still being fully
standard-compliant.
> Given the standard specifications, the fact that the following code...
[...]
> ...must be considered pure luck or expected result?
You can expect your version of gcc to do that, but you can't expect
every single standard-compliant C++ compiler in existence to do it in
the same way. (Technically speaking you can't even expect for the next
version of gcc to do it in the same way, even though it's unlikely it
will change.)
In other words, if you want your program to be fully portable, you
can't make that assumption.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 10:50 am
From: Juha Nieminen
James Kanze wrote:
> All associativity
> guarantees is that the multiplication will take place before the
> division
I assume that means that if you have overloaded operator* and
operator/, the standard guarantees that the former will be called before
the latter (even though the order in which the parameters are evaluated
is not guaranteed)?
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 12:30 pm
From: Francesco
On 28 Ago, 19:49, Juha Nieminen <nos...@thanks.invalid> wrote:
> Francesco wrote:
> >>> i.e it evaluates "s*p" first and "(p=s)" last,
> >> No.
>
> > As I said above, it does so, on my GCC.
>
> Just because gcc happens to do it that way doesn't mean that it
> couldn't do it in some other way, while still being fully
> standard-compliant.
Never said otherwise. Mine was a relative assertion, not an absolute
one, please read below.
> > Given the standard specifications, the fact that the following code...
> [...]
> > ...must be considered pure luck or expected result?
>
> You can expect your version of gcc to do that, but you can't expect
> every single standard-compliant C++ compiler in existence to do it in
> the same way. (Technically speaking you can't even expect for the next
> version of gcc to do it in the same way, even though it's unlikely it
> will change.)
>
> In other words, if you want your program to be fully portable, you
> can't make that assumption.
Of course. My question started with "Given the standard
specifications...", and was related to the (eventual) mandated
behavior.
Mentioning my GCC was just to report a compiler where the "weird way
of swapping variables" worked. Nothing more than that.
Best regards,
Francesco
==============================================================================
TOPIC: canceling noncopyable feature
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/5add783081f15e0e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 10:56 am
From: Juha Nieminen
James Kanze wrote:
> You lied to the compiler (and to the reader of your code).
> First, you said that the object wasn't copiable, then you said
> it was. I may be of the old school, but I find lying
> despicable.
>
> The simple solution to this problem is to fire the person who
> wrote the code.
I'm not sure it's that simple. It can also be a genuine mistake.
In a long inheritance chain one of the classes buried somewhere in
there might have been made "noncopyable" for some purpose. Then someone
else might inherit from a class inherited from a class inherited... and
so on from that class, and *inadvertedly* write a copy constructor for
it, overriding the one in that "noncopyable" class.
Of course for this to compile this person has to, if I understood
correctly, fail to call the parent class copy constructor in his own. Of
course this is a bad mistake in itself, but it might happen.
The problem is that now, by pure accident, the class has become
copyable even though it should not be, and the compiler is of no help in
catching this.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 11:05 am
From: Victor Bazarov
Juha Nieminen wrote:
> James Kanze wrote:
>> You lied to the compiler (and to the reader of your code).
>> First, you said that the object wasn't copiable, then you said
>> it was. I may be of the old school, but I find lying
>> despicable.
>>
>> The simple solution to this problem is to fire the person who
>> wrote the code.
>
> I'm not sure it's that simple. It can also be a genuine mistake.
>
> In a long inheritance chain one of the classes buried somewhere in
> there might have been made "noncopyable" for some purpose. Then someone
> else might inherit from a class inherited from a class inherited... and
> so on from that class, and *inadvertedly* write a copy constructor for
> it, overriding the one in that "noncopyable" class.
>
> Of course for this to compile this person has to, if I understood
> correctly, fail to call the parent class copy constructor in his own. Of
> course this is a bad mistake in itself, but it might happen.
>
> The problem is that now, by pure accident, the class has become
> copyable even though it should not be, and the compiler is of no help in
> catching this.
Isn't this all at the same level semantically like making class to be
non-derivable ("final")?
V
--
Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 12:32 pm
From: peter koch
On 27 Aug., 15:02, Michal <rabbi...@tenbit.pl> wrote:
> Hallo Group Members
>
> The following simple program allows for copying non-copyable function.
>
> #include <boost/noncopyable.hpp>
> #include <iostream>
>
> using namespace std;
>
> class Original: boost::noncopyable {
>
> public:
> Original() {
> cout << "Original constructor" << endl;
> }
> Original(const Original& rhs) {
> // this definition is the reason!!!!
> }
>
> };
>
> int main(int argc, char *argv[])
> {
> Original o;
> Original o2 = o;
> return 0;
>
> }
>
> Do You know how is it possible?
boost::non_copyable is simply a class that forbids copying and in
effect prevents direct copying (and copy-construction). Inheriting
from this class will thus prevent the compiler generated copy-
constructor (and assignment operator) from being generated.
But: nothing prevents you from declaring an explicit constructor:
doing so is an obfuscation and indicates that the original programmer
is quite bad.
/Peter
==============================================================================
TOPIC: wiki on basic screening interview questions
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/a77d53d783884325?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 10:57 am
From: Mindsports
This is an academic wiki on common C++ questions asked in many
technical screening interviews.
Hopefully it might prove helpful to somebody: http://preview.tinyurl.com/kvs8e6
Questions relevant to C++0x are not available yet :)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Will member function pointers work for virtuals?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/d9bacf6cbe604cb8?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 11:09 am
From: srp113
Hi,
I have a base class (State) that has a list of virtual/non-virtual
functions that implement processing logic for different kinds of
events that can happen in a system (signature for all of these
functions is same). I want to build a jump table (lets say a simple
array) that maps an event(integer) to a member function pointer:
jumptable[eventid]->fptr(eventdata).
I have classes responding to these events derived from base "State"
class (the hierarchy can have depth of > 2 i.e. State1 derives from
Base, State2 derives from State1...) and these virutal methods could
get overriden in different "state" classes to provide different
behavior for a given event. (state1/state2 both can have different
processing logic for event1 but same for event2) . My questions:
a)Will jumptable[eventid]->fptr(eventdata) work as expected? ( esp for
virtual functions will this call the most derived classes
implementation?),
b)Is there a performance penalty with this implementation (going
through 2 lookups one for jump table and then for vtable)?
c)If answer to b) is yes, are there any alternatives?
The reason for jump table is that I want to reuse this implementation
of state pattern in multiple applications
Thanks Much,
Sunil
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 11:26 am
From: red floyd
On Aug 28, 11:09 am, srp113 <sunilsreenivas2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a base class (State) that has a list of virtual/non-virtual
> functions that implement processing logic for different kinds of
> events that can happen in a system (signature for all of these
> functions is same). I want to build a jump table (lets say a simple
> array) that maps an event(integer) to a member function pointer:
> jumptable[eventid]->fptr(eventdata).
> I have classes responding to these events derived from base "State"
> class (the hierarchy can have depth of > 2 i.e. State1 derives from
> Base, State2 derives from State1...) and these virutal methods could
> get overriden in different "state" classes to provide different
> behavior for a given event. (state1/state2 both can have different
> processing logic for event1 but same for event2) . My questions:
> a)Will jumptable[eventid]->fptr(eventdata) work as expected? ( esp for
> virtual functions will this call the most derived classes
> implementation?),
A better method that's a bit more clear, and doesn't rely on pointer
to virtual members
is to use a public interface to private virtual (similar to the
Template design pattern).
e.g.:
class C {
private:
virtual void vf();
public:
void f();
// remainder redacted
};
void C::f()
{
vf();
}
void (C::*pf)() = &C::f;
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 12:52 pm
From: srp113
Hi Red,
Is there an issue with pointers to virtual functions in the
mechanism I described before (not allowed by standard/wont work)?
With the implementation you have given, there is increased overhead,
if I understand correctly my jumptable under your suggestion will be
setup to non-virtual functions, which in turn will call virtual
functions, which in turn will cause vtable lookup (3 levels of
indirections).
Thanks Much,
Sunil
On Aug 28, 2:26 pm, red floyd <redfl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 28, 11:09 am, srp113 <sunilsreenivas2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I have a base class (State) that has a list of virtual/non-virtual
> > functions that implement processing logic for different kinds of
> > events that can happen in a system (signature for all of these
> > functions is same). I want to build a jump table (lets say a simple
> > array) that maps an event(integer) to a member function pointer:
> > jumptable[eventid]->fptr(eventdata).
> > I have classes responding to these events derived from base "State"
> > class (the hierarchy can have depth of > 2 i.e. State1 derives from
> > Base, State2 derives from State1...) and these virutal methods could
> > get overriden in different "state" classes to provide different
> > behavior for a given event. (state1/state2 both can have different
> > processing logic for event1 but same for event2) . My questions:
> > a)Will jumptable[eventid]->fptr(eventdata) work as expected? ( esp for
> > virtual functions will this call the most derived classes
> > implementation?),
>
> A better method that's a bit more clear, and doesn't rely on pointer
> to virtual members
> is to use a public interface to private virtual (similar to the
> Template design pattern).
>
> e.g.:
>
> class C {
> private:
> virtual void vf();
> public:
> void f();
>
> // remainder redacted
>
> };
>
> void C::f()
> {
> vf();
>
> }
>
> void (C::*pf)() = &C::f;- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 1:27 pm
From: Pete Becker
srp113 wrote:
> Hi Red,
> Is there an issue with pointers to virtual functions in the
> mechanism I described before (not allowed by standard/wont work)?
struct Base
{
virtual void f();
};
struct Derived : Base
{
void f();
};
void test(Base *bp)
{
void (Base::*pmf)() = &Base::f;
(bp->*pmf)();
}
When you call test with a pointer to a Base object it calls Base::f.
When you call test with a pointer to a Derivd object it calls
Derived::f. Try it.
> With the implementation you have given, there is increased overhead,
> if I understand correctly my jumptable under your suggestion will be
> setup to non-virtual functions, which in turn will call virtual
> functions, which in turn will cause vtable lookup (3 levels of
> indirections).
>
If you're concerned about speed, measure. Calling a virtual function
through a pointer to member function can be quite complicated, depending
on the class hierarchy.
--
Pete
Roundhouse Consulting, Ltd. (www.versatilecoding.com) Author of
"The Standard C++ Library Extensions: a Tutorial and Reference"
(www.petebecker.com/tr1book)
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 3:18 pm
From: srp113
Hey Pete,
Thanks for your response.
> When you call test with a pointer to a Base object it calls Base::f.
> When you call test with a pointer to a Derivd object it calls
> Derived::f. Try it.
I did try it and it worked on my machine. I wanted to be sure its OK
to do this as per C++ standard.
>
> If you're concerned about speed, measure. Calling avirtualfunction
> through a pointer tomemberfunctioncan be quite complicated, depending
> on the class hierarchy.
I have used a tool called quantify from rational and that does report
increased # cpu cycles if I call virtual functions through member
ptrs vs calling them directly. I ran a test that measured for 10,000
function calls and that showed a difference of almost 4,10,000 CPU
cycles almost 3 millisecs on a 143 MHZ processor. Not sure though if
this will be real problem in my application.. that seems to be hard
call to make
Thanks
==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/320d9aa35b66d2de?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: "this" pointer
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==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 1:14 pm
From: "robertwessel2@yahoo.com"
On Aug 28, 3:58 am, James Kanze <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Formally, it's not even an argument. Although I can't imagine
> how you'd implement it otherwise, all the standard requires is
> that it be present once you're in the function. (Practically,
> of course, all the implementations I know pass it as a hidden
> first argument, using the same conventions that they would for
> any other argument. Why, I don't know---on an Intel processor,
> I'd pass it in EBX, even though any other argument would be
> passed on the stack, but the Intel compilers I have access to
> don't do that.)
As one example, 32 bit MSVC (by default) uses the "thiscall"
convention for non-vararg member functions, where the "this" pointer
is passed in ECX. For vararg member functions, it uses the more
conventional stack based convention ("cdecl"), and passes "this" as an
implied left-most parameter (IOW pushed on the stack last in the
typical right-to-left calling convention).
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Any developers here?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/ddfac76d4bf5f3cf?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 2:00 pm
From: Onideus Mad Hatter
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:47:39 -0400, Wavy G <Kingofpop@WassamattaU.edu>
wrote:
>>>Most of my career has been system and network administration....with
>>>some scripting thrown in.
>>>
>>>Now, I'd like to try my hand at programming....but not sure where to
>>>start. I was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good beginner
>>>language. Python? C? Etc....
>>>
>>>Pretend that I know nothing about programming, because....well,
>>>essentially, I don't. I know a little about C, used to do BASIC, but
>>>that's outmoded now.
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance.
>>Well, the first thing to keep in mind is that you don't need to go by
>>the individual languages, you need to go by the TYPE of programming
>>you want to learn. There are four main types:
>>
>>1. machine code
>>2. object oriented
>>3. scripting
>>4. markup
>>
>>And those are listed in order of complexity. There are actually TONS
>>of others, but I think it's best to kind of simplify things. Here's a
>>full list though if you're interested:
>>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_list_of_programming_languages
>>
>>What you need to ask yourself though is whether you want to be a
>>spaghetti programmer, or a real programmer. Spaghetti programmers can
>>only work within specific languages and they work primarily by copying
>>and pasting prebuilt code segments, essentially the equivalent of a
>>script kiddy. They don't really understand how the programming
>>language itself works, and in a lot of cases they don't even
>>understand the programming syntax. They can usually do real basic
>>things on their own, but anything complex requires them to hunt out
>>code segments made by other people.
>>
>>It's like the difference between someone who can speak, say, French,
>>and someone who is a linguist who can, effectively, speak *ANY*
>>language, because they understand the nature and root of all
>>languages. The former, those who can only speak one language, they
>>work by simply memorizing words, they don't actually understand the
>>language though or how it really works.
>>
>>Now you can start off small, or you can start off at the top, it
>>doesn't really make a big difference I think. I started out by
>>learning object oriented programming, then went to markup, then to
>>scripting, and now I work primarily with object oriented via
>>ActionScript in Flash.
>>
>>You should try and pick a language that has syntax that you're
>>comfortable with. I personally *HATE* C++, I think it has absolutely
>>shit syntax and isn't very intuitive at all, especially compared to
>>other languages like PHP and ActionScript. Some languages are also
>>more "forgiving" than others, in that there are usually several
>>different ways of achieving the same thing, so if you fudge a little
>>on the syntax it'll likely still work. HTML is probably the most
>>forgiving language there is...primarily because the language has no
>>clear, set standards in place. Effectively every browser maker on the
>>planet can make their own version of HTML and this is why there are so
>>many cross browser compatibility issues. True there is the
>>RECOMMENDED "standards" set forth by the W3C, but no one really
>>follows those to the exact lettering. So because of that, making a
>>website that's fully W3C compliant will likely result in a website
>>that breaks on any number of browsers.
>>
>>If you actually understand HOW programming languages work, then the
>>only thing you really need to be able to program, is a reference
>>manual. The online ones for PHP are probably the absolute best:
>>: http://us2.php.net/manual/en/langref.php
>>: http://us2.php.net/manual/en/funcref.php
>>: http://us2.php.net/manual/en/internals2.php
>>
>>The one for Flash is also pretty good:
>>: http://www.adobe.com/support/flash/action_scripts/actionscript_dictionary/
>>
>>Adobe also has a great set of tutorials and learning guides for Flash:
>>: http://www.adobe.com/support/flash/
>>
>>As well as good community/group support:
>>: http://groups.adobe.com/pages/home
>>
>>And if you use SwishMax like I do then there are the Swish Forums:
>>: http://forums.swishzone.com/
>>
>>If you want to learn programming though you'll need some kind of goal
>>in mind. I mean if you want to learn programming just because you
>>want to learn programming, or because you think it'll look good on a
>>resume...no, you're not going to learn anything that way. You need to
>>figure out *WHAT* you want to do, then pick a language best suited for
>>that goal as well as a language that has good syntax. Then from there
>>you can learn through the construction of whatever it is you're trying
>>to build.
>>
>>The alternative is to get a textbook, like nyah:
>>: http://www.amazon.ca/How-Program-Harvey-M-Deitel/dp/0130895717
>>
>>But good luck with that though. It's gonna be *REALLY* fuckin boring
>>and you aren't going to enjoy it much at all and you probably won't
>>get much out of it.
>>
>>That book by the way does have an excellent reference section for C++,
>>which is why I recommend it for that language. The tutorials/learning
>>parts of it though aren't terribly interesting at all.
>>
>>I would say that if you're looking to learn a programming language so
>>that you can "make more money" or "get a better job", then you're
>>effectively setting yourself up for failure. You're *NOT* going to be
>>any good at programming unless you either ENJOY doing it, or ENJOY
>>what you can use it for, as a tool. If you have no other interest in
>>it other than selfish greed, yeah, yer not gonna get very far, yer
>>gonna get really frustrated, yer gonna be incredibly bored, and yer
>>likely just gonna give it up and quit before you even really get
>>started.
>>
>>So again, have a goal in mind. Don't learn programming to learn
>>programming, learn programming because you need to use it as a tool in
>>order to build something you want. It'll come more naturally that way
>>and you'll actually enjoy learning it.
>Where exactly did you learn your definition of "spaghetti programming"?
>This refers to code that jumps all over, where if you were to look at a
>flowchart of the logic, it would resemble a bunch of "spaghetti" (get
>it?). It does NOT have anything to do with "someone who copies/pastes
>other programmers' code."
I didn't "learn" the definition anywhere, I made it up myself.
Although I usually refer to it as "spaghetti bitched" code or
"spaghetti bitching". The definition you're referring to is REAAALLY
freakin OLD, and completely out dated. Structured programming has
pretty much abolished "spaghetti programming" as you're referring to
it. See here:
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_number
"Largely due to the prevalence of interactive text editing in modern
operating systems, line numbers are not a feature of most programming
languages."
I call it "spaghetti bitched" in that your program is made up of
hundreds of different "noodles" or parts/code segments that you
bitched out of someone else's code, the end result being a complete
mish mosh of unrelated code segments, the individual code segments
representing the noodles, scattered together and twisted about
incoherently.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.uncensored-inter.net
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"Never do to anyone online what you wouldn't want done to yourself."
"Freedom, true freedom, is nothing more than intellectual advantage over others."
"When I listen to people I don't really listen to what it is they're
saying, so much as what they're saying it for."
"Don't ever fuck with someone who has more creativity than you do."
"Never use your own limitations as the basis of measuring a technologies worth."
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Usenet Filters/Blinders - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 2:57 pm
From: Onideus Mad Hatter
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:00:06 -0700, Onideus Mad Hatter
<usenet@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:47:39 -0400, Wavy G <Kingofpop@WassamattaU.edu>
>wrote:
>
>>>>Most of my career has been system and network administration....with
>>>>some scripting thrown in.
>>>>
>>>>Now, I'd like to try my hand at programming....but not sure where to
>>>>start. I was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good beginner
>>>>language. Python? C? Etc....
>>>>
>>>>Pretend that I know nothing about programming, because....well,
>>>>essentially, I don't. I know a little about C, used to do BASIC, but
>>>>that's outmoded now.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks in advance.
>
>>>Well, the first thing to keep in mind is that you don't need to go by
>>>the individual languages, you need to go by the TYPE of programming
>>>you want to learn. There are four main types:
>>>
>>>1. machine code
>>>2. object oriented
>>>3. scripting
>>>4. markup
>>>
>>>And those are listed in order of complexity. There are actually TONS
>>>of others, but I think it's best to kind of simplify things. Here's a
>>>full list though if you're interested:
>>>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_list_of_programming_languages
>>>
>>>What you need to ask yourself though is whether you want to be a
>>>spaghetti programmer, or a real programmer. Spaghetti programmers can
>>>only work within specific languages and they work primarily by copying
>>>and pasting prebuilt code segments, essentially the equivalent of a
>>>script kiddy. They don't really understand how the programming
>>>language itself works, and in a lot of cases they don't even
>>>understand the programming syntax. They can usually do real basic
>>>things on their own, but anything complex requires them to hunt out
>>>code segments made by other people.
>>>
>>>It's like the difference between someone who can speak, say, French,
>>>and someone who is a linguist who can, effectively, speak *ANY*
>>>language, because they understand the nature and root of all
>>>languages. The former, those who can only speak one language, they
>>>work by simply memorizing words, they don't actually understand the
>>>language though or how it really works.
>>>
>>>Now you can start off small, or you can start off at the top, it
>>>doesn't really make a big difference I think. I started out by
>>>learning object oriented programming, then went to markup, then to
>>>scripting, and now I work primarily with object oriented via
>>>ActionScript in Flash.
>>>
>>>You should try and pick a language that has syntax that you're
>>>comfortable with. I personally *HATE* C++, I think it has absolutely
>>>shit syntax and isn't very intuitive at all, especially compared to
>>>other languages like PHP and ActionScript. Some languages are also
>>>more "forgiving" than others, in that there are usually several
>>>different ways of achieving the same thing, so if you fudge a little
>>>on the syntax it'll likely still work. HTML is probably the most
>>>forgiving language there is...primarily because the language has no
>>>clear, set standards in place. Effectively every browser maker on the
>>>planet can make their own version of HTML and this is why there are so
>>>many cross browser compatibility issues. True there is the
>>>RECOMMENDED "standards" set forth by the W3C, but no one really
>>>follows those to the exact lettering. So because of that, making a
>>>website that's fully W3C compliant will likely result in a website
>>>that breaks on any number of browsers.
>>>
>>>If you actually understand HOW programming languages work, then the
>>>only thing you really need to be able to program, is a reference
>>>manual. The online ones for PHP are probably the absolute best:
>>>: http://us2.php.net/manual/en/langref.php
>>>: http://us2.php.net/manual/en/funcref.php
>>>: http://us2.php.net/manual/en/internals2.php
>>>
>>>The one for Flash is also pretty good:
>>>: http://www.adobe.com/support/flash/action_scripts/actionscript_dictionary/
>>>
>>>Adobe also has a great set of tutorials and learning guides for Flash:
>>>: http://www.adobe.com/support/flash/
>>>
>>>As well as good community/group support:
>>>: http://groups.adobe.com/pages/home
>>>
>>>And if you use SwishMax like I do then there are the Swish Forums:
>>>: http://forums.swishzone.com/
>>>
>>>If you want to learn programming though you'll need some kind of goal
>>>in mind. I mean if you want to learn programming just because you
>>>want to learn programming, or because you think it'll look good on a
>>>resume...no, you're not going to learn anything that way. You need to
>>>figure out *WHAT* you want to do, then pick a language best suited for
>>>that goal as well as a language that has good syntax. Then from there
>>>you can learn through the construction of whatever it is you're trying
>>>to build.
>>>
>>>The alternative is to get a textbook, like nyah:
>>>: http://www.amazon.ca/How-Program-Harvey-M-Deitel/dp/0130895717
>>>
>>>But good luck with that though. It's gonna be *REALLY* fuckin boring
>>>and you aren't going to enjoy it much at all and you probably won't
>>>get much out of it.
>>>
>>>That book by the way does have an excellent reference section for C++,
>>>which is why I recommend it for that language. The tutorials/learning
>>>parts of it though aren't terribly interesting at all.
>>>
>>>I would say that if you're looking to learn a programming language so
>>>that you can "make more money" or "get a better job", then you're
>>>effectively setting yourself up for failure. You're *NOT* going to be
>>>any good at programming unless you either ENJOY doing it, or ENJOY
>>>what you can use it for, as a tool. If you have no other interest in
>>>it other than selfish greed, yeah, yer not gonna get very far, yer
>>>gonna get really frustrated, yer gonna be incredibly bored, and yer
>>>likely just gonna give it up and quit before you even really get
>>>started.
>>>
>>>So again, have a goal in mind. Don't learn programming to learn
>>>programming, learn programming because you need to use it as a tool in
>>>order to build something you want. It'll come more naturally that way
>>>and you'll actually enjoy learning it.
>
>>Where exactly did you learn your definition of "spaghetti programming"?
>>This refers to code that jumps all over, where if you were to look at a
>>flowchart of the logic, it would resemble a bunch of "spaghetti" (get
>>it?). It does NOT have anything to do with "someone who copies/pastes
>>other programmers' code."
>
>I didn't "learn" the definition anywhere, I made it up myself.
>Although I usually refer to it as "spaghetti bitched" code or
>"spaghetti bitching". The definition you're referring to is REAAALLY
>freakin OLD, and completely out dated. Structured programming has
>pretty much abolished "spaghetti programming" as you're referring to
>it. See here:
>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_number
>
>"Largely due to the prevalence of interactive text editing in modern
>operating systems, line numbers are not a feature of most programming
>languages."
>
>I call it "spaghetti bitched" in that your program is made up of
>hundreds of different "noodles" or parts/code segments that you
>bitched out of someone else's code, the end result being a complete
>mish mosh of unrelated code segments, the individual code segments
>representing the noodles, scattered together and twisted about
>incoherently.
By the by, this is a *REALLY* great example of right brained vs left
brained. Someone whose overly analytical, left brained, would like
the old definition better in that they can create a diagram/flowchart
in which they can visually see the "noodles" via order/pattern
perception. My definition is very right brained in that it requires
creativity and spatial perception to "see" the "noodles".
As such, most programmers, who are inherently left brained, probably
don't much like my definition...which would explain your lil outburst
here (assuming of course you're actually a programmer and not simply
mouthing off for the fuck of it).
I can use both sides of my brain equally (although I usually slide a
bit towards the right), this is how I can be so good at coding whilst
simultaneously being so good at graphic design. And it's also why I
can easily combine the forms to create new, interesting ideas and
concepts.
As mentioned before, I created the very *FIRST* "true" web
application, in the MP3 player I built for my CB site (in the songs
section):
http://www.the-care-bears.net
I could not have accomplished that design on my own without being able
to use both sides of my brain equally.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.uncensored-inter.net
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"Never do to anyone online what you wouldn't want done to yourself."
"Freedom, true freedom, is nothing more than intellectual advantage over others."
"When I listen to people I don't really listen to what it is they're
saying, so much as what they're saying it for."
"Don't ever fuck with someone who has more creativity than you do."
"Never use your own limitations as the basis of measuring a technologies worth."
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Usenet Filters/Blinders - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: How can I get the byte size of wstring?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/39ab1c1092c1cc8f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2009 3:09 pm
From: Paavo Helde
Water Lin <WaterLin@ymail.com> kirjutas:
>
> I am using wstring as my Unicode style string. Now I want to get the
> byte size of a wstring.
>
> If I use size() method of wstring, I just get the total number of chars
> in my wstring. But the byte should be size() * 2.
>
> Is there an official way to get this byte size? I don't want to use
> size() * 2 in my program.....
>
Your (literary) question is already answered elsethread. However, if you
need to know the byte size of wstring elements, then you most probably
also need to know the encoding what you are using. And the encoding
basically fixes the element size more stringently, thus making your
question meaningless. For example, if your encoding is UTF-16 (as
suggested by your assumption that the element size is 2), then you would
have problems with portably using std::wstring for holding it, because in
many implementations (Linux, Mac,...) the size of wchar_t is 4 (assuming
UCS-32 encoding instead).
Maybe you want something like this instead?
STATIC_ASSERT(sizeof(std::wstring::char_type)==2);
hth
Paavo
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