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comp.lang.c++
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++?hl=en

comp.lang.c++@googlegroups.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: ===Welcome to comp.lang.c++! Read this first.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/f889a3e4648a1046?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 1 2009 9:30 pm
From: Shiva

Welcome to comp.lang.c++! Read this first.

This post is intended to give the new reader an introduction to reading
and posting in this newsgroup. We respectfully request that you read
all the way through this post, as it helps make for a more pleasant
and useful group for everyone.

First of all, please keep in mind that comp.lang.c++ is a group for discussion
of general issues of the C++ programming language, as defined by the ANSI/ISO
language standard. If you have a problem that is specific to a particular system
or compiler, you are much more likely to get complete and accurate answers in a
group that specializes in your platform. A listing of some newsgroups is given
at the end of this post.

The FAQ (Frequently Asked Question) list has a wealth of information for
both the new and veteran C++ programmer. No matter what your experience
level, you are encouraged to read the entire list, if only to familiarize
yourself with what answers are available to minimize redundant replies.
The comp.lang.c++ FAQ is available at http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/

If the FAQ list does not help, then many regular readers of this group
are happy to assist with problems of standard C++. We have only a few
requests that we ask be adhered to, for the benefit of all:

* Please put a short summary in the subject line. Descriptions such as
"HELP!!!!!!" are not helpful, and many regular posters ignore such
requests. A good example is, "Problem with Virtual Functions."

* State the question or the problem clearly and concisely. Describe what
you are trying to do, and the problem you are running into. Include all
relevant error messages.

* Include the smallest, complete and compilable program that exhibits your
problem. As a rule, posters in comp.lang.c++ will not do homework, but will
give helpful hints if you have shown some willingness to try a solution.

* comp.lang.c++ is forum for discussion, and as such some regular posters do
not give E-mail replies. Very often follow-ups to postings have corrections,
so plan on taking part in the discussion if you post a question. If you
do receive e-mail replies, it is considered polite to post a summary.

* Don't post in HTML format. Many readers of this newsgroup don't use
newsreaders which can handle HTML postings.

* If you have to include source code in your post, include the
source in the message body. Don't use attachments. A lot
of contributors to this newsgroup won't even notice the existence
of attachments or won't open them. You try to get any help
you can get, don't you?

Some netiquette topics which frequently crop up on comp.lang.c++ are
also answered in the FAQ.

* Should I post job advertisements and/or resumes on comp.lang.c++?
http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/how-to-post.html#faq-5.10

* What if I really need a job; should I post my resume on comp.lang.c++?
http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/how-to-post.html#faq-5.11

* What should I do to someone who posts something off-topic?
http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/how-to-post.html#faq-5.12

A note on comp.lang.c++ etiquette: Accuracy is valued very highly in this
newsgroup; therefore posts are frequently corrected, sometimes perhaps
too harshly, and often to the annoyance of new posters who consider the
correction trivial. Do not take it personally; the best way to fit in
with comp.lang.c++ is to express gratitude for the correction, move on,
and be more careful next time.

This is a very busy group, so these requests are designed to make it as
pleasant and efficient an experience as possible. We hope it proves
a valuable commodity to you.

A list of some Newsgroups :
Languages and Programming
-------------------------
comp.lang.c The C Programming Language
comp.lang.asm.x86 x86 assembly language programming
comp.programming Non-language specific programming
comp.graphics.algorithms Issues of computer graphics

Operating Systems
-----------------
comp.os.msdos.programmer DOS, BIOS, Memory Models, interrupts,
screen handling, hardware
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32 MS/Windows: Mice, DLLs, hardware
comp.os.os2.programmer.misc OS/2 Programming
comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Macintosh Programming
comp.unix.programmer General Unix: processes, pipes, POSIX,
curses, sockets
comp.unix.[vendor] Various Unix vendors

Microsoft VC++
-------------
microsoft.public.vc.language VC++ issues
microsoft.public.vc.mfc MFC Issues
microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc C++/CLR Issues
microsoft.public.dotnet.framework .Net Framework

Borland C++ Builder
-------------------
borland.public.cppbuilder.language Borland C++ Builder
borland.public.cpp.language
borland.public.cppbuilder

-Shiva
http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt

Sun Aug 2 00:30:00 EDT 2009

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 1:25 am
From: Phil Carmody

"Bo Persson" <bop@gmb.dk> writes:
> BGB / cr88192 wrote:
>> "Juha Nieminen" <nospam@thanks.invalid> wrote:
...
>>> In C, however, if I use a dynamic string in a function, I have to
>>> free it myself, and to avoid leaks in complicated functions I have
>>> to use some coding principles to make sure that the string gets
>>> freed no matter how the function is exited.
>>>
>>> That's precisely what I'm talking about: RAII aids me in avoiding
>>> a useless coding convention which I would have to use in C to make
>>> the my code safer.
>>
>> as a side note:
>> WRT strings, this is why I typically very rarely use strdup...
>> strdup is a memory leak just waiting to happen (likewise for
>> malloc...).
...
> So that's why we C++ guys prefer std::string, which solves all of
> this. :-)

However, in the hands of Java programmers, C++ is just as breakable
as any other language.

Phil
--
If GML was an infant, SGML is the bright youngster far exceeds
expectations and made its parents too proud, but XML is the
drug-addicted gang member who had committed his first murder
before he had sex, which was rape. -- Erik Naggum (1965-2009)

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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 2:48 am
From: frankenstein

As an addendum: I shall post in the following some bits of my matrix
class. Sorry there are no comments and it lacks all my pretty
printing, slicing and mapping over matrix stuff. However, you should
get an idea. Scroll down until you reach the example of the matrix
matrix multiplication. If you want to bench it againts a C code: use
google for the C code of a matrix matrix multiplication:

copy the code enclosed into a file e.g. foo.scm

and on the command line: bigloo -Obench foo.scm, and time a.out. If
you want to increase the size use 1024 e.g. in (do-main 1024).

Some basics to the class: read through it and you will encounter 3
classes: 64-bit, 32-bit and realmat

you create an n-dimensioanal matrix as follows: (mk-f64mat i j ... n
val: 0.0e0)
you access the values: (f64m& i j ... n)
you store values: (f64m! i j ... n value)

same goes for f32, and realmat. update and accessing is done by the
macro and should be sufficient fast.

Raueber Hotzenplotz

==
(module matrix
(export
(class f64mat
mat
(rank::bint (default 1))
(dims::pair-nil (default '(1)))
(print-index?::bool (default #t)))
(class f32mat
mat
(rank::bint (default 1))
(dims::pair-nil (default '(1)))
(print-index?::bool (default #t)))
(class realmat
mat
(rank::bint (default 1))
(dims::pair-nil (default '(1)))
(print-index?::bool (default #t)))
(inline make-matrix::obj op::pair-nil #!key (val 0.0e0) (type
(lambda (x y) (make-vector x y))))
(inline make-matrix-local::obj op::pair-nil #!key (val 0.0e0)
(type (lambda (x y) (make-vector x y))))
(inline mk-f64mat::f64mat #!rest op::pair-nil #!key (val 0.0e0))
(inline mk-f32mat::f32mat #!rest op::pair-nil #!key (val 0.0))
(inline mk-realmat::realmat #!rest op::pair-nil #!key (val 0.0))
(macro aref-set-helper fun::obj x::obj i::bint . op::obj)
(macro f64m& mat::f64mat . op::obj)
(macro f32m& mat::f32mat . op::obj)
(macro realm& mat::realmat . op::obj)
(macro f64m!c mat::f64mat val::double . op::obj)
(macro f64m! mat::f64mat . op::obj)
(macro f32m!c mat::f32mat val::real . op::obj)
(macro f32m! mat::f32mat val::real . op::obj)
(macro realm!c mat::realmat val::real . op::obj)
(macro realm! mat::realmat val::real . op::obj)))

(define-inline (.1st. x::pair-nil) (car x))
(define-inline (.2nd. x::pair-nil) (cadr x))
(define-inline (.3rd. x::pair-nil) (caddr x))

(define-inline (make-matrix-local::obj op::pair-nil
#!key (val 0.0e0)
(type (lambda (x y) (make-vector x y))))
(if (=fx 1 (length op))
(type (car op) val)
(let ([mx::vector (make-vector (car op))])
(do [(oi 0 (+fx oi 1))]
[(=fx oi (car op))]
(vector-set! mx oi (make-matrix-local (cdr op) val: val type:
type)))
mx)))

(define-inline (make-matrix::obj op::pair-nil
#!key (val 0.0e0)
(type (lambda (x y) (make-vector x y))))
(if (=fx 1 (length op))
(type (car op) val)
(let ([mx::vector (make-vector (car op))])
(do [(oi 0 (+fx oi 1))]
[(=fx oi (car op))]
(vector-set! mx oi (make-matrix (cdr op) val: val type:
type)))
mx)))

(define-inline (mk-f64mat::f64mat #!rest op::pair-nil #!key (val
0.0e0))
(let* ((indx::bint (-fx (length op) 1)))
(if (<fx indx 2)
(begin
(error "mk-f64mat in matrix.scm" "you would have to pass at
least 1 dimension" op))
(begin
(let* ((val::double (list-ref op indx))
(op::pair (take op (-fx indx 1))))
;(print op val indx)
(instantiate::f64mat (mat (make-matrix-local op val: val type:
(lambda (x y) (make-f64vector x y))))
(rank (length op))
(dims op)))))))

(define-inline (mk-f64matr::f64mat #!rest op::obj)
(instantiate::f64mat (mat (make-matrix-local op val: 0.0e0 type:
(lambda (x y) (make-f64vector x y))))
(rank (length op))
(dims op)))

(define-inline (mk-f32matr::f32mat #!rest op::obj)
(instantiate::f32mat (mat (make-matrix-local op val: 0.0 type:
(lambda (x y) (make-f32vector x y))))
(rank (length op))
(dims op)))

(define-inline (mk-f32mat::f32mat #!rest op::pair-nil #!key (val
0.0))
(let* ((indx::bint (-fx (length op) 1)))
(if (<fx indx 2)
(begin
(error "mk-f32mat in matrix.scm" "you would have to pass at
least 1 dimension" op))
(begin
(let* ((val (list-ref op indx))
(op::pair (take op (-fx indx 1))))
(instantiate::f32mat (mat (make-matrix-local op val: val type:
(lambda (x y) (make-f32vector x y))))
(rank (length op))
(dims op)))))))

(define-inline (mk-realmatr::realmat #!rest op::obj)
(instantiate::realmat (mat (make-matrix-local op val: 0.0 type:
(lambda (x y) (make-vector x y))))
(rank (length op))
(dims op)))

(define-inline (mk-realmat::realmat #!rest op::pair-nil #!key (val
0.0))
(let* ((indx::bint (-fx (length op) 1)))
(if (<fx indx 2)
(begin
(error "mk-realmat in matrix.scm" "you would have to pass at
least 1 dimension" op))
(begin
(let* ((val::double (list-ref op indx))
(op::pair (take op (-fx indx 1))))
(instantiate::realmat (mat (make-matrix-local op val: val type:
(lambda (x y) (make-vector x y))))
(rank (length op))
(dims op)))))))

(define-macro (m& x::obj i::bint . op::obj)
(if (null? op)
`(vector-ref ,x ,i)
`(a& (vector-ref ,x ,i) ,@op)))

(define-macro (m! x::obj val::obj i::bint . op::obj)
(if (null? op)
`(vector-set! ,x ,i ,val)
`(a! (vector-ref ,x ,i) ,@op)))

(define-macro (f64m& mat::f64mat . op::obj)
`(with-access::f64mat ,mat (mat)
(aref-set-helper (lambda (xx yy) (f64vector-ref xx yy))
mat ,@op)))

(define-macro (f32m& mat::f32mat . op::obj)
`(with-access::f32mat ,mat (mat)
(aref-set-helper (lambda (xx yy) (f32vector-ref xx yy))
mat ,@op)))

(define-macro (realm& mat::realmat . op::obj)
`(with-access::realmat ,mat (mat)
(aref-set-helper (lambda (xx yy) (vector-ref xx yy))
mat ,@op)))

(define-macro (f64m! mat::f64mat . op::obj)
(let* ((indx::bint (-fx (length op) 1))
(val::double (list-ref op indx))
(op::pair (take op indx)))
`(with-access::f64mat ,mat (mat)
(aref-set-helper (lambda (xx yy) (f64vector-set! xx yy ,val))
mat ,@op))))

(define-macro (f32m! mat::f32mat . op::obj)
(let* ((indx::bint (-fx (length op) 1))
(val::double (list-ref op indx))
(op::pair (take op indx)))
`(with-access::f32mat ,mat (mat)
(aref-set-helper (lambda (xx yy) (f32vector-set! xx yy ,val))
mat ,@op))))

(define-macro (realm! mat::realmat . op::obj)
(let* ((indx::bint (-fx (length op) 1))
(val::double (list-ref op indx))
(op::pair (take op indx)))
`(with-access::realmat ,mat (mat)
(aref-set-helper (lambda (xx yy) (vector-set! xx yy ,val))
mat ,@op))))

(define-inline (aref-set-helper-new fun::obj x::obj i::bint op::obj)
(if (null? op)
(fun x i)
(aref-set-helper-new fun (vector-ref x i) (car op) (cdr op))))

(define-macro (aref-set-helper fun::obj x::obj i::bint . op::obj)
(if (null? op)
`(,fun ,x ,i)
`(aref-set-helper ,fun (vector-ref ,x ,i) ,@op)))

(define-macro (f64m!c mat::f64mat val::double . op::obj)
`(with-access::f64mat ,mat (mat)
(aref-set-helper (lambda (xx yy) (f64vector-set! xx yy ,val))
mat ,@op)))

(define-macro (f32m!c mat::f32mat val::real . op)
`(with-access::f32mat ,mat (mat)
(aref-set-helper (lambda (xx yy) (f32vector-set! xx
yy ,val)))))

(define-macro (realm!c mat::realmat val::real . op::obj)
`(with-access::realmat ,mat (mat)
(aref-set-helper (lambda (xx yy) (vector-set! xx yy ,val))
mat ,@op)))

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; Test: matrix -matrix multiplication
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; we craete a matrix here:
;; (mk-f64mat rows cols val: 0.0e0)
;; will create a 64bit matrix of size (rows x cols)
;;
;; we can update individual values by:
;; (f64m! matrix i j value)
;; matrix is the matrix
;; i, j are the indices (based and rows runs first)
;; value is the value
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(define-inline (mkmatrix::f64mat rows::bint cols::bint)
(let ((mx::f64mat (mk-f64mat rows cols val: 0.0e0))
(count::double 0.5e0))
(do ((i 0 (+fx i 1)))
((=fx i rows))
(let ((row (make-f64vector cols 0.0e0)))
(do ((j 0 (+fx j 1)))
((=fx j cols))
(f64m! mx i j count)
(set! count (+fl count 0.5)))))
mx))

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; we do the matrix matrix multiplication
;;
;; we cann access values in the matrix class by:
;; (f64m& matrix i j)
;; and we set values by: (f64m! matrix i j value)
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(define-inline (mmult::f64mat rows::bint cols::bint m1::f64mat
m2::f64mat)
(let ((m3::f64mat (mk-f64mat rows cols val: 0.0e0)))
(do ((i 0 (+fx 1 i)))
((=fx i rows))
(do ((j 0 (+fx 1 j)))
((=fx j cols))
(let ((val::double 0.0e0))
(do ((k 0 (+fx 1 k)))
((=fx k cols))
(set! val (+fl val
(*fl (f64m& m1 i k)
(f64m& m2 k j)))))
(f64m! m3 i j val))))
m3))

(define (do-main size::bint)
(let ((mm::double 0.0e0)
(m1::f64mat (mkmatrix size size))
(m2::f64mat (mkmatrix size size)))
(set! mm (mmult size size m1 m2))
(let ((r0 (vector-ref (f64mat-mat mm) 0)))
(print (f64vector-ref r0 0)))))

(do-main 512)
==

On Aug 1, 8:46 pm, frankenstein <klohmusc...@yahoo.de> wrote:
> On Jul 29, 12:14 am, Jon Harrop <j...@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>
> > fft1976 wrote:
> > If you're using VS then I highly recommend F# for numerical work, largely
> > because it makes parallelism so easy.
>
> > > Gambit-C Scheme (one of the best of LISPs, IMO): about 2x slower than
> > > C (single core only), but you have to work to get within 2x (unlike
> > > OCaml), and if you want it fast, it can't be safe (switch controlled).
>
> > Bigloo?
>
> Bigloo is a good option for numerical work and sometimes beats my
> Fortran F90 code. I am not a Fortran 90 expert but that Bigloo stacks
> up well compared to Fortran tells a lot.
>
> Fact #1: We must forget about the language shootout page because it is
> and always has been a kinda like of Micky Mouse benchmark (any idot
> who thought he might make up for an excellent programmer posted crappy
> code and once posted it is forever in google's history and a lot of
> other idiots will use the result from the benchmark). RIP language
> shotout page.
>
> Fact 2: The performance of Bigloo especillay for larger problems where
> your simulations will consume 12 hours and more on processor times and
> will use 2GB of associated main memory and more does not come for
> free. You will have to program your intended code with this in mind.
> HOWEVER, turning Bigloo into a numerical powerhorse for large data
> simulations is straightforward:
>
> a) use from the very beginning on *fx, *fl ... native Bigloo operators
> (IT IS VERY easy to use them and the compiler will help you out a lot
> to spotting type mismatches; however, you won't have to use your gun
> as you likely would by using OCaml and shooting yourself to stop the
> battling for types).
>
> b) use f32 or f64 arrays (I created my own array class) whenever
> possible. especially use f32 for large data simulations since it makes
> a whole lot of a difference if your data are half the size in the main
> memory in 32-bits mode than as it would be in 64-bits even though
> internal calculations are always automatically casted to Bigloo its C
> type double.
>
> c) use classes to make code clearer: classes are very fast in Bigloo.
>
> d) whenever you have to read in binary data (note there are some
> issues with f32 bits; read Bigloo its mailing list) use or check for
> the following undocumented functions and your code will fly: (ieee-
> string->double), (ieee-string->float), (double->ieee-string), (float-
>
> >ieee-string), etc.
>
> e) use -Obench option when compiling, -Obench covers more or less all
> Bigloo to C related and associated compiler options with speed in mind
> (no bound checking etc.).
>
> f) add types to your code to make it readable for others and for your
> pleasure to read and understand your own code during your debugging
> excercise:
>
> ==
> (define (add-vector::vector vec1::vector vec2::vector name::bstring
> x::bint y::my-class)
> (...))
> ==
>
> I haven't realaesed it yet but I have fully fledged with a whole lot
> of bells and whistles bindings to:
>
> - full clapack (linear algebra package converted from Fortran to C by
> f2c freely downloadable from the net)
> - full DISLIN (high level plotting routine)
> - binding to a random number generator
> - binding to a mie scattering code
> - a matrix class (for creating n dimensional f32 and f64 matrices,
> mapping over n-dimensional matrices, pretty printing, slicing, etc.)
> which does a fantastic job and is up to the task speed wise.
>
> NOTE: Translating code from an imperative language lets say Fortran to
> Bigloo is easy. A lot of Fortran code consists of do loops which
> Bigloo you might uses as well:
>
> ==
> (do ((i 0 (+fx i 1))
> ((=fx i dim))
> (do ... etc.
> ==
>
> The only issue: Bigloo like C is 0 based and in my case I always think
> in row order instead of Fortran column order scheme.
>
> If you don't use Bigloo and recipies and suggestions posted above
> Bigloo is dog slow. However, it is really very simple and comes more
> or less at no cost to tailor it to a bespoken powerhorse.
>
> Whenever anyone writes a binding for a well respected external C
> library which a lot of people might be interested in please make it
> public (yes, yes, I for mself haven't done it yet for dislin and
> clapack, etc.). In the hope scientists will stop using Micky Mouse
> languages like Matlab or Python with is a pain in the ass.
>
> Bigloo also makes available classes for java. However, I have no idea
> if this works well or not and if there are people out there who are
> using Bigloo in Java for numerical work.
>
> That said: a big question mark: I haven't seen any detailed
> descriptions of Bigloo and how to employ threads to use dual-core or
> multi processors even in numerical code.
>
> If anone likes to come forward please do so and report of your
> experience using Bigloo in a multi processor farm.
>
> Thanks, Rumpelstilzchen

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 3:07 am
From: frankenstein

On Aug 1, 10:56 pm, Paul Rubin <http://phr...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
> frankenstein <klohmusc...@yahoo.de> writes:
> > Fact #1: We must forget about the language shootout page because it is
> > and always has been a kinda like of Micky Mouse benchmark (any idot
> > who thought he might make up for an excellent programmer posted crappy
> > code and once posted it is forever in google's history and a lot of
> > other idiots will use the result from the benchmark). RIP language
> > shotout page.
>
> The shootout is reasonably informative when it's about languages that
> have many active practitioners. If someone posts crappy slow code
> that makes the language look bad for a while, someone else can come
> along and post faster code. So there is ongoing competition between
> GHC, Ocaml, C++ and so forth. It's only for the languages with fewer
> practitioners (these can still be perfectly good languages) that the
> early crappy submissions don't get improved regularly.

The shootout is completely useless when it comes to real life. I have
to deal with large data sets and simulations. My problem is that most
of my simulations are stuck in reading in the data. Data from global
chemistry transport models and satellite date make quickly up for 500
GB for a year worth of data and observations. Even only processing day
after day most of the 12 hours the simulation takes is spent in
reading in the data.

Fortran by nature is fast even when using object oriented programming.
However, I am now changing my code to Bigloo. I have no actual figures
if my simulations (basically eigenvalues and inverse and inversion
from data and observations; i am using my binding to clapack for this)
will be as fast as the ones written in Fortran. However, I made the
observation that my class for reading the data from the global
chemistry transport model is faster than the origial code which comes
shipped with the model for reading in the binary files created by the
model. I guess the reason being this: they read in record after record
without ever jumping to the match. My class (based on (ieee-string-
>float and mmap)) jumps around, e.g. the fortran program (with -O3
option) and ifort compiler would take 6 seconds for reading in an
array whereas my bigloo code takes 4 seconds. Disclaimer: (ieee-string-
>float) as it now stands has a bug in Bigloo and I was forced to use
a software conversion (code for converting 4-bytes to float posted
long time ago here on comp.lang.scheme by Oleg) which puts the figures
to 8 seconds. However, I am quite sure Bigloo developers will resolve
the bug. So my benchmark of seconds is based on a wrong conversion (it
will always give 0.0 instead of the actual value). I also made the
observations that during the read process my Bigloo program and
Fortran consumes the same amount of real memory. I am not expecting
that bigloo will be more memory efficient but I hope the grabage
collector will serve me well. allocating deallocatin (since Fortran 90
standard) is very efficient in Fortran.

Frau Holle

==============================================================================
TOPIC: negative powers of two
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/50db9695edc9e79f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 2:59 am
From: James Kanze

On Aug 1, 4:38 pm, Jerry Coffin <jerryvcof...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <069cb282-77ec-45c0-bcd6-2aa88e53ec48
> @k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, james.ka...@gmail.com says...

> > On Jul 31, 6:01 pm, Jerry Coffin <jerryvcof...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> [ ... ]
> > > Whether this will be faster than pow() will depend -- for
> > > a lot of cases where the floating point is stored as a
> > > significand and a power of two, frexp will be something
> > > like a mask, shift and an integer subtraction to remove a
> > > bias in the exponent. As you'd expect, ldexp will pretty
> > > much reverse that: add the bias, shift to the right
> > > position, OR with the significand. Generally pretty fast.
> > > OTOH, if the native floating point representation is
> > > drastically different from that, they could end up pretty
> > > slow -- but machines with such strange floating point
> > > representations are pretty unusual.

> > Not really. I don't know of any mainframe which uses base 2
> > for its floating point: IBM uses base 16, and both Unisys
> > architectures use base 8; Unisys MCP also normalizes in a
> > somewhat strange way. The fact that the bases are powers of
> > two means that the operation can still be done with masking
> > and shifting, but it requires a bit more than a base 2
> > representation would.

> You start by saying "not really", but from what I can see, you
> then go on to pretty much confirm what I said -- that while
> these machines aren't binary, they still work in a power of
> two, which means that frexp/ldexp will probably be faster than
> pow() for all of them.

The algorithm you described only applies to machines with base 2
floating point, not base 8 or 16. And IBM mainframes aren't
"pretty unusual", they're the most common mainframe around. (I
think that Unisys is second in the market, and the Unisys MCP
does have a somewhat exotic representation, normalizing with the
decimal to the right, and not to the left, and not requiring
normalization at all---the idea is that an integer and a
floating point have the same bitwise representation.)

As for speed compared to pow(), I don't know. Depending on the
speed of hardware floating point and how much support the
hardware has for pow, it could vary. A lot of 32 bit processors
had one clock hardware support for the four basic operations,
but it was fairly expensive to shift 64 bits. (On at least one
processor I worked on, all shift operations were done with a
loop in microcode.) Of course, that's not the case of IBM
mainframes, which support 64 bit shifts directly as well. (But
IIRC, it's 64 bit shifts were optimized for, and maybe only
supported, multiples of four bits---for normalizing BCD values,
etc.)

> I have to admit I'm a bit surprised though -- I thought IBM's
> mainframes used decimal floating point, not hexadecimal...

They may have both, but the floating point I've always seen was
base 16. And the IMB compatibles from Siemens and Fujitsu, back
when I worked on them, didn't have a single instruction for
decimal floating point (although the instruction set did allow
implementing it in five or six instructions, without any loops,
even for division, since the machines did have fixed point
decimal instructions, and 64 bit shifts).

Of course, this was all a fairly long time ago---I've not had
the occasion to look at the IBM instruction set since then---,
so the situation could easily have changed.

--
James Kanze (GABI Software) email:james.kanze@gmail.com
Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, +33 (0)1 30 23 00 34

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 3:07 am
From: James Kanze

On Aug 2, 12:18 am, Jerry Coffin <jerryvcof...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <069cb282-77ec-45c0-bcd6-2aa88e53ec48
> @k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, james.ka...@gmail.com says...

> [ ... ]
> At:http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/pa-bigiron1/

> IBM says: "The System/390 implemented the IEEE 754 BFP formats
> in addition to HFP for the first time in 1995" (using "BFP" as
> an abbreviation for "binary floating point"), so their
> mainframes have had binary floating point for about 14 years
> now.

I'm not sure, but I think that this support was optional. On
the machines we were running in 1999, it had just been added,
and it was significantly slower than the traditional IBM base 16
format. (More importantly for us, it wasn't supported in IBM
Cobol, which meant that floating point data coming from the
mainframe still had to be translated in our Java-based
applications running under AIX.)

[...]
> As far as the original question goes, the only time you're
> likely to run into a substantial difference in speed when
> using frexp/ldexp would be with decimal -- for either binary
> or hexadecimal (or octal), ldexp() and frexp() will usually be
> pretty simple and fast, though differences in (or lack of)
> normalization will have _some_ effect as well.

As I mentionned in another posting, this depends very much on
the speed of the various operations. A good implementation of
pow will not take that many floating point operations, and on
some machined (*not* the IMB mainframes), 64 bit shifts can be
very expensive.

Of course, the only reasonable course is to use pow, and if the
profiler shows that to be a problem, measure ldexp, and use it,
if it is faster (likely, but not certain). But especially: when
you get to that point, don't speculate like we're doing, but
measure. That way, you know the answer is correct for your
machine, regardless.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: static inline functions - possible?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c++/t/0386357e12bd0064?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 3:12 am
From: James Kanze

On Jul 31, 12:52 pm, "Balog Pal" <p...@lib.hu> wrote:
> "Stephen Howe" <sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom>
> > Is it possible to have static inline member functions of a
> > class?

> Why not?

> > I dont ever recall seeing "static" and "inline" together.

> With member functions you rarely spell "inline", as just
> defining the function within the class makes it inline
> implicitly. And you must include the definition of functions
> just as the definition of the class, so separation here brings
> little more pain than just doing the definitions right at the
> place.

At least in the places I've worked, putting the definition
inside the class has been forbidden. (There are several reasons
for this, and they don't apply everywhere, but on the whole, I'd
go along with the rule, at least for definitions in exported
header files.)

> > if so, how is it done ?

> The same way as the regular, just add 'inline' at front. :)
> Note, that for member functions you do NOT say 'static', ever,
> at the implementation point if it is outside the class def.

Yes, and you don't say "inline", usually, if the implemention is
inside the class. But both are allowed on the same function, in
any order.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 3:20 am
From: James Kanze

On Jul 31, 2:25 pm, "Balog Pal" <p...@lib.hu> wrote:
> "Juha Nieminen" <nos...@thanks.invalid>

> > Balog Pal wrote:
> >> With member functions you rarely spell "inline", as just
> >> defining the function within the class makes it inline
> >> implicitly. And you must include the definition of
> >> functions just as the definition of the class, so
> >> separation here brings little more pain than just doing the
> >> definitions right at the place.

> > It's a question of style, but many people prefer separating
> > the declaration of a class from the implementation of its
> > inline functions, to keep the header tidy and clean. (After
> > all, the class declaration often doubles as a kind of
> > "reference manual" to the usage of the class, especially in
> > the lack of better documentation, or if the documentation is
> > impractical to read.)

> Yea, and for many cases the inline implementation documents
> what the function does. :)

Perhaps with the help of a few macros:-). (I'm thinking of the
usual programming by contract technique. I've heard of people
who defined special macros, along the lines of "PRECONDITION()",
"POSTCONDTION()", and "INVARIANT()", and insisted that the
non-virtual public function be in the class definition, so that
the invocation of such macros be visible. For various reasons,
I've never used this technique, however.)

> Where if it wouldn't there are good chances it is not fit for
> inlining anyway.

> Headers are good as dox, but you're better off to use doxygen
> or like system -- so directly reading becomes only task of who
> changes it, the rest can read the derived html, that well
> separates&jons the declarations, the code, the attached text,
> no matter how it is spread in the source files.

You're even better off doing things in the correct order:
writing the documentation first (e.g. as cweb, or using a tool
like Rose), and generating the header files from it. And
depending on the tool, it might not easily support such code in
the header functions (Rose doesn't), at least if you want to
make your header files "derived objects", not edited later.

> I worked with those separated inlines -- at a time made some
> myself, my net conclusion is it makes things worse.

It probably depends on what you're doing. Putting code in the
class definition doesn't make reading the class definition
simpler, except for almost trivial classes (functional objects,
etc.). Or, of course, if that code really is part of the
"documentation".

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 3:24 am
From: James Kanze

On Aug 1, 8:10 am, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

> > When I have eight functions each a page long, I don't like
> > them inside the declaration. Rips the context apart.

> When I have eight functions each a page long, I know I've done
> something wrong!

Just to be iconoclastic: I'd say that depends on the size of a
page. A long, long time ago, a "page", meant a screenful on a
80x24 character terminal---a class with eight functions, none of
which are more than 24 lines long, sounds acceptable to me. (On
the other hand, I once worked with a person who used an
exceptionally small font on a Sparc---his "screenful" pages were
something like 200x100 characters. And he used them. The
results definitely weren't what I would consider acceptable.)

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 3:57 am
From: Ian Collins

James Kanze wrote:
> On Aug 1, 8:10 am, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
>
>>> When I have eight functions each a page long, I don't like
>>> them inside the declaration. Rips the context apart.
>
>> When I have eight functions each a page long, I know I've done
>> something wrong!
>
> Just to be iconoclastic: I'd say that depends on the size of a
> page.

> A long, long time ago, a "page", meant a screenful on a
> 80x24 character terminal---a class with eight functions, none of
> which are more than 24 lines long, sounds acceptable to me. (On
> the other hand, I once worked with a person who used an
> exceptionally small font on a Sparc---his "screenful" pages were
> something like 200x100 characters. And he used them. The
> results definitely weren't what I would consider acceptable.)

I use 30" panels and a 12 point font, so a page is about 112 lines.

--
Ian Collins

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 5:56 am
From: "Pearson & prentice hall solutions"

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 5:57 am
From: "Pearson & prentice hall solutions"

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 2 2009 5:59 am
From: "Pearson & prentice hall solutions"

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== 1 of 1 ==
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