Thursday, October 25, 2018

Digest for comp.lang.c++@googlegroups.com - 14 updates in 4 topics

bitrex <user@example.net>: Oct 24 09:20PM -0400

On 10/24/2018 03:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Why does the C programming language refuse to die?"
 
C is "The Rooster." No, no, he ain't gonna die.
 
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUqBglpHTO0>
 
 
woodbrian77@gmail.com: Oct 24 06:56PM -0700

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 3:23:27 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
 
> Sans Exceptions, Sans RTTI and sans STL, we have built two operating
> systems and a large-scale hypervisor using C++ (consider it the C++ 2.1
> subset) at various large companies (Unisys, SGI, 3Leaf Systems).
 
G-d willing, Herb Sutter's static exceptions proposal will
gain further support and the details will be ironed out. This
will allow for using exceptions and STL in contexts that have
had to work around them. Someone on Reddit was saying he
thought there could be a compiler or two with support for
this in 2019. That would be great and I hope it will be
GCC as that's my primary compiler.
 
 
 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net
 
woodbrian77@gmail.com: Oct 24 07:43PM -0700

> thought there could be a compiler or two with support for
> this in 2019. That would be great and I hope it will be
> GCC as that's my primary compiler.
 
This could make C++ a lot more competitive with C and
people like Dan Saks and Odin Holmes who have worked
hard to make C++ work on embedded systems will see
further paybacks for their efforts. It may usher in
a real boost for C++.
 
 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net
bitrex <user@example.net>: Oct 25 01:24AM -0400


> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises
> http://webEbenezer.net
 
It's habitually frustrating that there's no particularly good solution
to error handling on embedded platforms running bare-metal without
resort to hacks.
 
C++ zero-overhead abstraction lets you do things with even 8 bit
processors that's extremely difficult or impossible to accomplish with
straight C in a reasonable time and thereby, ideally, lets you extract
more value out of limited compute resources; you can make do with a $1
processor instead of a $3 processor or reduce your power consumption
which are extremely valuable things in cost-sensitive applications. but
then they go and hamstring you by adding the overhead back in if you
want exceptions. WTF!
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>: Oct 25 10:00AM +0200

On 24/10/18 22:43, bitrex wrote:
>> conservatism - a lot of embedded code is written in C90, rather than
>> C99 or C11, and C++ is still viewed as "new and complicated".
 
> it is misplaced conservatism IMO.
 
Oh yes, I agree on that.
 
There is also entirely reasonable conservatism - when your current
project is build by starting with the previous project and modifying it,
and so on back through the history for the last 20 years, it is hard to
make big changes to the fundamentals like the language. Then you have
things like developer experience - if most of your developers are not up
to speed on modern C++, it makes sense to stick to C for your project.
That of course means that for the next project, they are not up to speed
on modern C++ and it makes sense to stick to C...
 
A key sticking point that I see is major RTOS's and assorted libraries
like network stacks. These are usually written in C90, often in a
terrible type-unsafe style (lots of void* pointers) with their own
personal sized integer types, their own design flaws that require
special compiler flags or optimisation restrictions on modern compilers,
etc. But they are tried and tested, certified and field-proven - and
that is hugely important.
 
> embedded platforms in year of our Lord 2018, even platforms like the
> MSP430. C++ makes the lack of intrinsic dynamic memory management on
> devices with small amounts of RAM _easier_ to live with, not less so
 
Small platforms like the msp430 /do/ have dynamic memory support in
their standard libraries - you have malloc() and free() just like
anywhere else. However, it is unlikely that it makes sense to use it -
you have risks of heap fragmentation, unpredictable timings, and in most
dedicated embedded systems, a memory allocation failure is a critical
failure of the system. Dynamic memory is hugely more complex to analyse
to be sure the system is correct - so static allocation is the norm.
(Alternatives include a very simple malloc implementation and no free,
or dedicated pools for particular uses.)
 
This applies to C and C++ equally. C++ RAII can make it a lot easier to
track allocations and avoid memory leaks than manual dynamic memory
handling in C, but it does not make any difference to the reasons why
small embedded systems usually avoid dynamic memory.
 
 
But perhaps the biggest reason for choosing C over C++ in embedded
systems, especially small systems (rather than embedded Linux or
platforms with MB of memory) is about people. Anyone who has experience
of working with small embedded systems will be experienced with C,
hopefully also assembly, and perhaps also with hardware and electronics.
If you try to get hold of new programmers with good C++ experience,
however, they are likely to come from the world of "big" programming -
multi-GHz, multi-GB, multi-core systems. Usually they simply do not
understand what is important in small systems. They want to use boost,
and unordered_map, and multiple virtual inheritance, and they wonder why
their 30 MHz, 64 KB target can't cope. (I've seen similar things with C
programmers too, but to a lesser extent.)
bitrex <user@example.net>: Oct 25 11:56AM -0400

On 10/25/2018 04:00 AM, David Brown wrote:
> track allocations and avoid memory leaks than manual dynamic memory
> handling in C, but it does not make any difference to the reasons why
> small embedded systems usually avoid dynamic memory.
 
I guess the intent I was going for by my comment is that modern C++
allows you to more effectively implement data structures and algorithms
which preferentially use the stack to get their work done, via holding
composite objects by value and judicious use of move constructors and
assignment operators.
 
Yeah at some level you will likely have to hold a resource which is
statically allocated on the heap and not repeatedly allocated and freed
to avoid risk of fragmentation, but you can write everything up the
chain such that it's clear and enforced who the "owner" of that resource
is at any particular time - even if it isn't freed in the lifetime of
the program IMO ownership should still be enforced it shouldn't be a
free-for-all.
 
bitrex <user@example.net>: Oct 25 12:20PM -0400

On 10/25/2018 11:56 AM, bitrex wrote:
> which preferentially use the stack to get their work done, via holding
> composite objects by value and judicious use of move constructors and
> assignment operators.
 
This is a "paradigm" I like on embedded systems, resource holders are
encapsulated and move-only, interfaces are defined using the CRTP,
objects which require resource allocation on the heap may only be
instantiated via factory creator methods. Something like:
 
template <template <typename> class Derived>
class Interface {
public:
template <typename T>
static Derived<T> create()
{
return Derived<T>::create_();
}
 
template <typename T>
void do_something(const T& t)
{
static_cast<Derived<T>*>(this)->do_something_(t);
}
};
 
template <typename T>
class Implementation : public Interface<Implementation>
{
template <typename U>
struct Resource {
Resource() : buf_(new U[64])
{}
 
Resource(const Resource&) = delete;
Resource& operator=(const Resource&) = delete;
Resource(Resource&& other) : buf_(other.buf_)
{
other.buf_ = nullptr;
}
 
Resource& operator=(Resource&& other) {
buf_ = other.buf_;
other.buf_ = nullptr;
return *this;
}
 
U* buf_;
};
 
friend class Interface<Implementation>;
 
protected:
Implementation() = default;

static Implementation<T> create_()
{
return Implementation<T>();
}
 
void do_something_(const T& t)
{
 
}
 
private:
Implementation() = default;
Resource<T> resource_;
};
BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com>: Oct 25 02:42PM -0500

On 10/24/2018 3:30 PM, bitrex wrote:
> "Better Cs" were made by people who set out to make a programming
> language....because they hate C! ugh! C's the worst! Arrrghhh....
 
> It shows
 
Or, from the POV of a language designer who actually likes C:
Makes a language, could try to pass it off as a "C replacement";
Doesn't really bother, C still does C things pretty well (and there are
still non-zero cost of using my language in places where C works).
 
I have also written a C compiler (and a more experimental limited subset
of C++), so these are also options (for use-cases where I am using a
custom compiler).
 
 
A downside with doing a "C replacement" is that many of the "flaws" of C
will still exist if one makes a language which can address the same
use-cases:
If one tries to side-step them (by omitting things), then the language
is painful to use;
If one tries to provide alternatives that do similar, but are
"safer"/..., then they come with overhead;
One can't do a "simple" language and aim for this use-case, as by the
time it is "actually usable", then complexity is already on-par with C;
...
 
While dynamic / "high level" languages can address some use-cases pretty
well, in the context of a "C alternative" they are generally unusable.
Similar generally goes for languages with more wildly different language
designs, ...
 
 
Many people add features which require runtime support, such as garbage
collection, which makes it unsuitable for many use-cases (ex: hard
real-time and smaller microcontrollers); and even on big, fast,
soft-real-time uses (ex: typical desktop PC) they are not ideal (the GC
still almost invariably sucks in one area or another).
 
Things like exceptions are "use with caution"; need to keep ABI cost
minimal. The best scheme I am (currently) aware of is doing it similar
to the Win64 ABI (using using instruction ranges and using the epilog
sequence for unwinding). There is still a cost for storing a table with
per-function pointers (ex: 8 or 16B or so per-function).
 
 
Things like bounds-checked arrays are doable, but typically add the cost
of requiring the use of "fat pointers" or similar (either passed in GPRs
or indirectly via reference or the usual "pass struct by value"
mechanism for the ABI, *).
 
I have used this in my own language (which uses an arrays partway
between the C and Java/C# styles), but it still carries a bit of
overhead vs C-style raw pointers.
 
*: Mostly leaning against going into "pass struct by value" mechanisms
here (this varies a fair bit between architectures and ABIs).
 
 
By the time a type-system is capable enough to do "all the usual C
stuff", it is already about as complicated as what is needed for the C
typesystem (or one pays in other ways).
 
Though, one can still simplify things partly vs the surface-level
language (this also applies to C), and divide the types into major types
and sub-types.
 
For Example: ILFDAX
* I: 32-bit int and sub-types.
* L: 64-bit long and sub-types.
* F: 32-bit float and sub-types.
* D: 64-bit double and sub-types.
* A: pointers / arrays / "struct by ref" / ...
* X: 128-bit types (int128, float128, vec4f, small structs, ...).
 
So, for example, everything which can fit into an 'int' or 'unsigned
int' could fit into 'I'; everything which is internally treated as a
64-bit integer type goes into 'L', ...
 
This is very similar to the model used internally by Java, but can be
made to accommodate C.
 
The main remaining "hair" area is that C treats "int" and "unsigned int"
a bit differently in some areas, which may require dealing specially
with unsigned cases in some cases. But, likewise, this is true for
pretty much any language which has unsigned integer types.
 
 
OO / object-system, generally needed "de-facto" for a language to be
taken seriously, but even in the simplest cases add complexity over "not
having an object system".
 
Vs the C++ object system, it is possible to simplify things somewhat
though. Most obvious: Doing like Java and C# and dropping Multiple
Inheritance.
 
 
Similarly, one can do like C# and split 'struct' and 'class' into two
functionally distinct entities. This can reduce some implementation hair
vs trying to make both exist.
 
My case, I still have some complexity (of class-like structs) mostly as
it is still needed to support the C++ subset (though my subset did drop
MI). ( FWIW: Both my custom language and the C++ subset share the same
underlying compiler in this case; and aren't too far off from being
effectively re-skins of the other, *. Though another separate VM based
implementation of this language also exists. )
 
Similarly, in my case it is also possible to use the "natively compiled"
version in VM style use cases mostly by compiling to a RISC style ISA
and then using partial emulation (such an ISA can still be useful while
also still being relatively simple; and can protect the host's memory
via an address-space sandbox, or possibly with selective use of a
"shared memory" mechanism, ...).
 
*: Partly as a consequence, many things in one can be expressed in the
other "just with slightly different syntax", and while not quite as
copy/paste compatible with C as C++ is (due to mine using a more
Java-ish declaration syntax), cross-language interfacing is otherwise
relatively straightforward (same underlying ABI). This doesn't currently
target x86 based systems, but could probably do so if needed.
 
 
All it really leaves is C having (pros/cons) exposed raw pointers, and
some amount of ugly-named extension keywords (which can be remapped via
typedefs or defines).
 
And, my case, I also have some features from my other language exposed
in C land via similarly ugly extensions, but generally not used much as
reliance on language extensions is not good for code portability (apart
from cases where the extension is implemented in a way where a plain C
fallback can be provided).
 
Similarly, between the custom language and a C++ subset, the latter
(also) has the advantage that code written in it will still work in a
normal C++ compiler (and still has the drawback of it being C++ rather
than C).
 
 
Combined, a lot of this doesn't really make for a particularly strong
case for trying to replace C.
"Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid>: Oct 25 01:36PM -0700

On 10/25/2018 1:00 AM, David Brown wrote:
> to be sure the system is correct - so static allocation is the norm.
> (Alternatives include a very simple malloc implementation and no free,
> or dedicated pools for particular uses.)
[...]
 
Fwiw, a stack based region allocator can be of service in a highly
limited environment:
 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.c/7oaJFWKVCTw/sSWYU9BUS_QJ
boltar@cylonhq.com: Oct 25 10:03AM

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:55:18 -0400
>> from scratch then perhaps move over to web coding where your lack of ability
>> won't be such an issue.
 
>Get a load of this cat.
 
Did you just step out of a 1970s B movie?
"Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid>: Oct 25 01:27PM -0700

>>> won't be such an issue.
 
>> Get a load of this cat.
 
> Did you just step out of a 1970s B movie?
 
Fritz the Cat?
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http://it.cultura.linguistica.italiano.narkive.com/jDPPWzSr/hi-babies-son-la-pornostar-insegnante-maria-grazia-crupi-facebook-maria-grazia-mari-crupi-maria:i.1.3.thumb

NOTA IN TUTTO IL GLOBO TERRESTRE, ANCHE, PER ESSER STATA L' EX AMANTE LESBICA DI MARINA BERLUSCONI E PER BEN 12 ANNI ( FRA MONTAGNE DI CASH MAFIOSO, QUINTALI DI COCAINA, ORDINI DI OMICIDI E STRAGI: I BERLUSCONI SONO PIU' MALAVITOSI ASSASSINI DI AL CAPONE E TOTO RIINA MESSI INSIEME, VE LO STRA ASSICURO)
https://plus.google.com/108636656730606836659
https://plus.google.com/102103531009107965093
https://plus.google.com/100248419268040066274
ED ORA FATEMI URLARE CON TUTTE LE MIE FORZE, PLEASE, MI RIPETERO', MOLTO PROBABILMENTE, MA PER IL BENE DELLA UMANITA' TUTTA, LO FACCIO E LIETISSIMAMENTE!
L'IMMENSO PRENDI CAZZI IN CULO LUIGI BERLUSCONI (FIDANZATA-WIKIPEDIA-PADRE SPAPPOLA MAGISTRATI E SBAUSCIA TROIE POCO PIU' CHE BAMBINE, SILVIO BERLUSCONI..... " PER SEMPRE FUORI DAI COGLIONI") STA IMBASTENDO IN GIRO PER IL MONDO, VERE E PROPRIE OVRA E GESTAPO ASSASSINE DEL WEB, COL PRIMA CITATO MERDONE BERLUSCONICCHIO MARCO CARRAI DI CGNAL E COL NAZI-ST-ALKER, ACCERTATO PEDERASTA INCULA BAMBINI, FREQUENTISSIMO MANDANTE DI OMICIDI, GIA' TRE VOLTE FINITO IN CARCERE: PAOLO BARRAI NATO A MILANO IL 28.6.1965 ( O FREQUENTISSIMO MANDANTE DI OMICIDI, GIA' TRE VOLTE FINITO IN CARCERE: PAOLO PIETRO BARRAI NATO A MILANO IL 28.6.1965 CHE SIA)!!! E SIA CHIARO, PLEASE: IO SONO MARIA GRAZIA CRUPI DI MILANO. SONO L'EX AMANTE LESBICA DI MARINA BERLUSCONI.
LE HO LECCATO LA FIGA E LE HO MESSI AGGEGGI SESSUALI NEL CULO PER BEN 12 ANNI ( ED AGGEGGI SESSUALI MOLTO MOLTO PERVERTITI, LO VOLEVA LEI, ME LO IMPOENVA LEI). SE VI E' UNA AMICA INTIMA DI LGBT QUELLA SONO PROPRIO IO. MA DEBBO URLARE UNA COSA, ADESSO: LUIGI BERLUSCONI PRENDE CAZZI DI 30 CM IN SU FINO ALLA PROSTATA, FA BOCCHINI SU BOCCHINI E BEVE LITRI SU LITRI DI SBORRA.
http://www.gay.it/gossip/news/bacio-gay-luigi-berlusconi
E' UN OMOSESSUALE PERSO, PRESTO, MOLTO PROBABILMENTE, SI FARA' ANCHE LA OPERAZIONE E DIVERRA' TRANS, MA NESSUNO E STRA NESSUNO HA IL CORAGGIO DI SCRIVERNE: STRACCERO' IO IL LERCIO DRAPPO DI OMERTA' BERLUSCONAZISTA E BERLUSCOMAFIOSA, ALLORA!
IL CIUCCIA E PRENDI MEGA CAZZI A GO GO LUIGI BERLUSCONI (BACIO RICCHIONESCHISSIMO QUI
https://www.tuttouomini.it/images/2017/7/luigi-berlusconi-bacio-gay-estate-amico.jpg ) NATO IN FIGHETTINA ARLESHEIM (CH) IL 27.9.1988. SI, PROPRIO LUI: L'OMOSESSUALE ^OCCULTO^ LUIGI BERLUSCONI DI BASTARDAMENTE CRIMINALE ELIGOTECH AMSTERAM, BASTARDAMENTE CRIMINALE SOLDO LTD LONDON E BASTARDAMENTE CRIMINALE BANCA MEDIOLANUM (CHE RICICLANO MONTAGNE DI € MAFIOSI, ESATTAMENTE COME FACEVA LA CRIMINALISSIMA BANCA RASINI DI SUO NONNO, TOPO DI FOGNA LUIGI BERLUSCONI ....O COME FACEVA E FA ORA PIU' CHE MAI, LA FININVEST DEL PEDOFILO DILANIANTE FALCONE E BORSELLINO: SILVIO BERLUSCONI
http://www.vnews24.it/2014/05/29/borsellino-sentenza-choc-stragi-commissionate-berlusconi/






4
E DELLA CRIMINALISSIMA, HITLERIANA, ^OCCULTA" LESBICA MARINA BERLUSCONI
https://twitter.com/premolisimona/status/876055837420158976 )
INSIEME AL BERLUS-CO-RROTTO VERME MARCO CARRAI DI CGNAL, CREA NAZITECNOLOGICHE NUOVE OVRA E GHESTAPO! COL NOTO ANTI SEMITA, GIA' 3 VOLTE FINITO IN CARCERE, PAOLO BARRAI, NATO A MILANO IL 28.6.1965 ( FINITO IN CARCERE PURE IN BRASILE, ED ANCHE PER PEDOFILIA OMOSESSUALE: INCULAVA LI I BAMBINI, NE SCRIVEREMO PRESTO
http://www.rotadosertao.com/images/fotos/fotos_noticias/testao.jpg
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjTiy_twjOPYIaKWznyd9HxfmJs8PmzhN3NL3zMDaQkn7GY2hkLpIt6RKb8T1JrsKlFYPlynZxgWy48xtZRmWsxBrjnB9i9yCPIFO5EzNDYaXqtLYgQZgjZrQrS-ICNslSnJx2Rne3CAV8/s1600/barrai+ind-pag01.jpg )!
COL TUTTO, PER FINIRE, UNITISSIMO ALL'ECONOMISTA NOTORIAMENTE MOLTO PEDOFILO, NAZISTA ED ASSASSINO PAOLO CARDENÀ DI SAN PAOLO INVEST E MALAVITOSA MEDIOLANUM STESSA.
http://www.py.cz/pipermail/python/2017-September/013036.html
https://a.mytrend.it/authors/1385.jpg

NATO A MACERATA IL 2.19.1971 E RESIDENTE A PENNA SAN GIOVANNI (MACERATA), VIA UMBERTO I, NUMERO 41. COME ANCHE IN VIA POZZO 105, 63837 FALERONE (FM) https://www.commoditiestrading.it/public/autori/635338392358575000_Cardena.jpg
STO MERDAIO MEGA OMICIDA ERA DIETRO LO STUPRO DI GRUPPO EFFETTUATO A PAMELA MASTROPIETRO.
http://nomassoneriamacerata.blogspot.com/2018/02/lomicidio-di-pamela-mastropietro.html
A CUI HA FATTO SEGUITO UN RITUALE MASSONICO NAZIFASCISTA, EFFETTUATO PROPRIO DAL SATANISTA ASSASSINO E PEDOFILO PAOLO CARDENA', PORTANTE ALLA DIVISIONE DEL CORPO DI PAMELA ( EFFETTUATA DA MEDICI LEGALI MASSONI SANGUINARI, COME AI TEMPI DEL MOSTRO DI FIRENZE: FRATELLI CRIMINALISSIMI DEI PAZZI OMICIDA PAOLO CARDENA' E STEFANO CARDENA' DI CRIMINALISSIME CARDENA' AND PARTNERS E CARDENA' CONSULTING).
QUESTO LINK QUADRA OGNI COSA, A PROPOSITO
http://m.dagospia.com/clamoroso-a-macerata-sospetti-su-un-giro-di-baby-squillo-dietro-l-omicidio-di-pamela-mastropietro-171763
HAN POI TROVATO 4 LORO SCUGNIZZI MALAVITOSI NIGERIANI PER GIRARE A LORO OGNI COLPA ( I QUALI, ORA, IN CARCERE, DALTRONDE, AVRANNO VITTO E ALLOGGIO PER UN TOT DI TEMPO, PIU' TANTI SOLDI QUA E LA, RICEVUTI DA QUESTI MASSONI ASSASSINI, PER STARE ZITTI.. COSI' CHE FRA QUALCHE ANNO USCIRANNO DALLE CELLE E SARANNO PURE BENESTANTI).
DI QUESTO NE SCRIVONO E DICONO NOTI MASSONI DI ESTREMA DESTRA STESSA, QUALI FABIO FRABETTI, PAOLO FRANCESCHETTI E SPECIALMENTE GIANFRANCO CARPEORO, IN REALTA', A LIVELLO DI VERO NOME E COGNOME, GIANFRANCO PECORARO, ( CHE, VIA MARI DI LOGGE MASSONICHE, SON ADDENTRO DA UNA VITA A QUESTO TIPO DI OMICIDI, QUINDI, SANNO ALLA PERFEZIONE OGNI COSA ED AMMIREVOLISSIMAMENTE CE NE FANNO SAPERE)
http://petalidiloto.com/2018/02/due-parole-sullomicidio-pamela-mastropietro.html
http://petalidiloto.com/2012/12/intervista-carpeoro-su-massoneria-e.html
QUESTO E' SONO UN ANTIPASTINO. I PIATTI FORTI ARRIVERANNO AL PIU' PRESTO POSSIBILE.
O IL PEDOFILO SPAPPOLA MAGISTRATI...
O IL NAZIMAFIOSO ASSASINO SILVIO BERLUSCONI..
O IL DITTATORE COCAINOMANE DISTRUGGI VITE ALTRUI SILVIO BERLUSCONI..
.. AMMETTE IL MALE INGIUSTIFICATISSIMO FATTO,
.. AMMETTE IL MALE DAVVERO INGIUSTISSIMO ED OMICIDA, FATTO ( SA' BENISSIMO A CHE E CHI MI RIFERISCO). E RISARCISCE. O LA GIUSTIZIA LA FARO' IO. NEI SUOI CONFRONTI E NEI CONFRONTI DI TUTTI I PORCI E VERMI CHE RADONO AL SUOLO VITE DI INNOCENTI, PER LUI! PER SUA BORIA, SATANAZIFASCISMO, COCAINA, SOLDI MAFIOSI, ARROGANZA, ORGE PEDOFILESCHE, SCORCIATOIE SOCIALI, PREPOTENZA, EGOCENTRISMO, ANTIDEMOCRAZIA, PERVERSIONE, CORRUZIONE, COSA NOSTRA, CAMORRA, NDRANGHETA, SACRA CORONA UNITA, VANITA', BRAMA DI CAMMINARE A MORTE SULLE ESISTENZE ALTRUI. O FATTI O CAZZI AMARI, DA ORA E PER SEMPRE, PER GLI ASSASSINI, STRAGISTI, NAZIMAFIOSI, EFFERATISSIMI CRIMINALI IN FIGHETTINA E RUBATA CRAVATTA: BERLUSCONI!
5
MA ORA VOGLIO PARLARE DI ME, SI, PROPRIO DI ME!
CIAO A TUTTI. SONO LA VICENTISSIMA PORNOSTAR, INSEGNANTE A MILANO, MASSONA DI ALTO GRADO, INFORMATRICE DI SERVIZI SEGRETI DI MEZZO MONDO: MARIA GRAZIA CRUPI. NATA IL 30.10.1969. NOTA IN TUTTO IL PIANETA TERRA PER ESSER STATA PER BEN 12 ANNI, LA PIU' FOCOSA FRA TANTISSIME AMANTI LESBICHE DI MARINA BERLUSCONI (
https://plus.google.com/108636656730606836659
https://plus.google.com/102103531009107965093
https://plus.google.com/100248419268040066274 )
ED ORA FATEMI URLARE CON TUTTE LE MIE FORZE, PLEASE....
L'IMMENSO PRENDI CAZZI IN CULO LUIGI BERLUSCONI (FIDANZATA-WIKIPEDIA-PADRE SPAPPOLA MAGISTRATI E SBAUSCIA TROIE POCO PIU' CHE BAMBINE, "SILVIO BERLUSCON PER SEMPRE FUORI DAI COGLIONI") DI CRIMINALISSIMA FININVEST ALIAS (MA)FI(A)NINVEST, CRIMINALISSIMA MOLMED SPA, CRIMINALISSIMA HOLDING ITALIANA QUATTORDICESIMA SPA ALIAS CRIMINALISSIMA
woodbrian77@gmail.com: Oct 24 06:23PM -0700

https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/24/apples-tim-cook-makes-blistering-attack-on-the-data-industrial-complex/
 
Cook argued for a US privacy law to prioritize four things:
 
data minimization — "the right to have personal data minimized",
saying companies should "challenge themselves" to de-identify
customer data or not collect it in the first place
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple is using https://duckduckgo.com
. Duckduckgo doesn't keep track of your searches and they don't
follow you around with advertising. Mr. Cook is saying that
technology needs to be friendly/benign or it will wither away.
Sometimes executives say dumb things, but in this case Mr. Cook
is correct.
 
 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - Enjoying programming again.
https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>: Oct 25 10:10AM +0200

> technology needs to be friendly/benign or it will wither away.
> Sometimes executives say dumb things, but in this case Mr. Cook
> is correct.
 
Do you have shares in Duckduckgo or something? This is a C++ group, not
a "please use my favourite search engine" group.
 
And if Cook is arguing for greater privacy of data and less collection
of private data by US companies, he is a howling hypocrite. Apple
collects everything it can get its claws on - just like Microsoft,
Google, Facebook, and similar companies. (But not, of course, your
beloved Duck company.) If he wants laws to reduce this, it is only
because his company is losing compared to the other big ones, and he
wants help from the law to pull them down.
 
All these companies - Duckduckgo included - are there to make /money/.
that is their purpose. Duckduckgo does not minimise tracking and
personal information because it is a "nicer" or more "ethical" company -
it does it because taking that stance gives them a different segment of
the search market, and lets them make money. Apple will use Duckduckgo
for searches if they think that will make them more profits, and will
use Google, Bing, Yahoo, or whatever if they think those will be more
profitable.
 
You make your own choices about which services or companies you want to
use. You can base those choices on reality, or the little fantasy world
you live in. But there is no need to keep advertising them here.
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