- "Death to C, ++" - 12 Updates
- How did God defeat sin? - 6 Updates
- Naysayers will not endure, but you can endure - 1 Update
- MemPool for real-time systems was updated - 1 Update
- The Day of Your Judgment - 1 Update
- Creating a constexpr list - 2 Updates
| Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com>: Jul 18 12:34PM -0500 "Death to C, ++" https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/16/death-to-c/ "The C programming language is terrible. I mean, magnificent, too. Much of the world in which we live was built atop C. It is foundational to almost all computer programming, both historically and practically; there's a reason that the curriculum for Xavier Niel's revolutionary "42" schools begins with students learning how to rewrite standard C library functions from scratch. But C is no longer suitable for this world which C has built." I disagree. True, working in C and C++ is like walking on a tight rope. But, if one cannot walk the tightrope then one should find something else to do in life. After all, working on the high wire is not for everyone. Lynn |
| "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jul 18 10:39AM -0700 On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 1:34:48 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote: > But, if one cannot walk the tightrope then one should find something > else to do in life. After all, working on the high wire is not for > everyone. I agree with you completely, Lynn. Certain people are tailored for certain tasks, but not everyone is tailored for every task. In my experience you can't really teach someone to be a developer. They either are or they aren't innately. The only thing you can do is teach people policies and procedures to follow, whereas with the innate developer, they will understand things implicitly, and be able to build and expand upon ideas they're exposed to, making the final form of their contribution something greater than the parts it's comprised of. C is not for the weak, but it is essential, and it is exactly for those who are able to wield it. Thank you, Rick C. Hodgin |
| Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com>: Jul 18 05:40PM > else to do in life. After all, working on the high wire is not for > everyone. > Lynn " If you're a developer you already know where I'm going, of course: to tout the virtues of Rust, which is, in fact, a viable C/C++ replacement. " Rust is pain. That language is worst nightmare I had misfortune to program in. Inability to implement doubly linked list and take two mutable references to single array is just one example. Rust is abomination of language, pure and simple. -- press any key to continue or any other to quit... |
| "Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jul 18 11:58AM -0700 On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 20:40:41 UTC+3, Melzzzzz wrote: > Inability to implement doubly linked list and take two mutable references to > single array is just one example. Rust is abomination of language, pure > and simple. Yes, strange language that did born after D and Go (that both are IMHO more pleasant). Rust is I think for people who don't want to program but to solve a puzzle that does not let them to program. How it is better than C++? No idea. |
| "Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jul 18 12:41PM -0700 On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 20:34:48 UTC+3, Lynn McGuire wrote: > But, if one cannot walk the tightrope then one should find something > else to do in life. After all, working on the high wire is not for > everyone. The decades with C have caused lot of great code checking, testing and debugging tools to raise that make even C quite safe to use. It feels just bit inconvenient language (and not like on high wire). C++ additionally contains such convenience subset with what the feeling is like running in park. Memory corruptions with buffer overflows or dangling pointers are not possible when using that subset. But C++ is large and so it takes years to learn the borders with it and rest of the "technically valid" C++ language. Rust however has replaced that with a painful ball and chain that don't let one to run nor to get to high wire. If someone likes that pain then there are still bad news. Rust's inter-operation with C++ (if programmer for example wants to refactor legacy C++ into Rust step by step) is stinky. Rest of the competition that are supposedly made with similar goals (like D, Go and Swift) interop with C++ way better. So unless the C community decides to switch to Rust for unknown reason I don't think it will live very long. |
| jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>: Jul 18 11:30PM +0200 Le 18/07/2017 à 19:40, Melzzzzz a écrit : > Rust is pain. That language is worst nightmare I had misfortune to program in. > Inability to implement doubly linked list You can see an implementation of a double linked list here: http://bluss.github.io/ixlist/target/doc/ixlist/struct.List.html A double linked list has 2 indices into an array of elements. A correct implementation would allow you to grow the array as you index it, an index bigger than 1 of the last elements implies an extension of the array, using memory as the list grows. What is a pointer? It is an index into an array of addressable bits, consecutively. Modern CPUs offer virtual memory, where the OS gives you a huge adressable space. Underlying the virtual memory is the real memory, that could have some GB in most machines. |
| jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>: Jul 18 11:31PM +0200 Le 18/07/2017 à 20:58, Öö Tiib a écrit : > Rust is I think for people who don't want to program but > to solve a puzzle that does not let them to program. Parse error... I can't figure out that sentence. What do you want to say? |
| Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>: Jul 18 05:42PM -0400 On 7/18/2017 1:40 PM, Melzzzzz wrote: > Inability to implement doubly linked list and take two mutable references to > single array is just one example. Rust is abomination of language, pure > and simple. Agreed that Rust is a pain. But there are programmers which can't handle the responsibilities C places on them, and need some other language that better holds their hand. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle jstucklex@attglobal.net ================== |
| woodbrian77@gmail.com: Jul 18 02:57PM -0700 On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 2:42:20 PM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote: > > everyone. > The decades with C have caused lot of great code checking, testing > and debugging tools to raise that make even C quite safe to use. No mention of the free enterprise system that has been the soil for the development of the tools. They just happened over time, right? If I hadn't adopted an on line business model years ago, I would have been devoured by the entitlement mentality that you promote. > overflows or dangling pointers are not possible when using that > subset. But C++ is large and so it takes years to learn the borders > with it and rest of the "technically valid" C++ language. On-line code generators are intended to help with that. Users provide a high-level description of what they want and get back a low-level implementation. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net |
| woodbrian77@gmail.com: Jul 18 03:07PM -0700 On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 4:41:49 PM UTC-5, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > Agreed that Rust is a pain. But there are programmers which can't > handle the responsibilities C places on them, and need some other > language that better holds their hand. I like some of C, but I like it primarily as a part of C++. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - I'm thankful for Jerry as he has reminded me to be thankful for C++. http://webEbenezer.net |
| "Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jul 18 03:57PM -0700 On Wednesday, 19 July 2017 00:31:54 UTC+3, jacobnavia wrote: > Parse error... > I can't figure out that sentence. > What do you want to say? I wanted to say that with Rust one is constantly stuck for seemingly artificial reasons imposed by language. So it is perhaps fine language for people who don't want to program at all. |
| "Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jul 18 04:17PM -0700 > over time, right? If I hadn't adopted an on line business > model years ago, I would have been devoured by the entitlement > mentality that you promote. What you mean? Software on what people work gets inevitably better over time. No difference if there is tyranny or free market or communism and who has what rights or privileges. Right here where I now live was fully blossoming Communism when I first wrote a program in C. |
| leigh.v.johnston@googlemail.com: Jul 18 04:36AM -0700 Fuck. Off. |
| "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jul 18 05:28AM -0700 > .. Jesus Christ wants to forgive your sin without judgment, Leigh. He wants you and all that is uniquely and distinctly you to be a part of His eternal Kingdom. He wants you to paint His universe with your own mark, making that portion He gives to you your very own. http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/14.htm 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [Note: He was speaking to Jews at this time] 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. There is a time of fulfillment which is at hand. If you study the prophecies in the Bible, and the timelines, there is a six day pattern given by God for how long He took to create the Earth. It mirrors a 6,000 year pattern of man's existence on the planet, with the 7th day (6,001 to 7,000 years) being a day of rest. Soon and very soon a day is coming when the Lord returns. All who are His will go with Him to eternity. All who are not His will be cast into the depths of Hellfire for all time, because they would not believe the truth. Investigate the Bible, Leigh. You'll find there are no holes in it, and that it has every fundamental answer you've ever sought. It has this information because it is from God. Thank you, Rick C. Hodgin |
| Good Guy <hello.world@example.com>: Jul 18 06:23PM +0100 > Fu. Please don't swear on these newsgroups. Use your kill-switch if you don't like to read about God. -- With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
| James Moe <jimoeDESPAM@sohnen-moe.com>: Jul 18 11:35AM -0700 On 07/18/2017 10:23 AM, Good Guy wrote: Good Guy: What is with the giant, ugly, poorly laid out signature? -- James Moe jmm-list at sohnen-moe dot com Think. |
| "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jul 18 11:47AM -0700 On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 2:36:20 PM UTC-4, James Moe wrote: > On 07/18/2017 10:23 AM, Good Guy wrote: > Good Guy: What is with the giant, ugly, poorly laid out signature? It came through thusly with [ and ] substituted for greater than and less than signs: [div class="moz-signature"]-- [br] [div class="moz-signature"] [div style="width: 340px;height: 290px; background-color: blue; color: yellow;font-weight: bolder; font-size:200%; text-align: center; margin: 30px 5px 30px 5px;"]With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.[/div] [/div] [/div] Thank you, Rick C. Hodgin |
| Good Guy <Hello.World@Example.com>: Jul 18 10:26PM +0100 On 18/07/2017 19:35, James Moe wrote: > Good Guy: What is with the giant, ugly, poorly laid out signature? To reach god faster in 0(N) time but it seems I only succeeded to touch your raw nerve. I'll try again anyway!!! -- With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
| "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jul 18 01:46PM -0700 There are a lot of naysayers, a lot of detractors in this world. They postulate things that are not true as though they were true, and it is being done that way to mislead people, confuse people, sow seeds of doubt in people's minds, encourage thoughts which lead people away from where they should be and to some other place. I would like to ask everyone to to the Bible and learn for yourself about Jesus Christ. You've heard me talk about how He came here to forgive your sin and to give you eternal life, but what does that really mean? God has not left you abandoned. You are not alone in this world. Even though bad things happen here, it's not because of God, and God is the solution to ending all manner of bad things. ----- Right now you are alive in this world in your body, but your spirit is dead in sin. If it were something tangible you'd see it like a corpse on a table long dead. What Jesus does is come to you and take away your sin before God. He transfers your sin onto Himself (like taking a dirty jacket off and giving it to Him). All of your sin leaves you physically and goes to Him so that He bears the burden of your sin, not you. When Jesus does this, that spiritual corpse comes alive and you are then living spiritually. This immediately asserts itself into your life and you change in that instant. Literally the old you dies, and the new you is born with the rebirth of that spirit life. From that day forward everything about your life will change, and you are able to move toward and do things that were not possible before. You're able to move away from and shun things you were powerless over before. Jesus gives you authority and power by His resurrection from the dead, and your new spirit life is in constant communion with Him in the spirit. You are able to receive guidance from His own Holy Spirit continually, and He will lead you away from false things and toward true things. ----- Whoever you are, wherever you're from ... you need Jesus Christ in order to know the truth. You need to have your sin forgiven so you can be alive eternally. Until this happens you are walking in darkness, falseness, and you have no life in you, even though your physical body is alive, for it is the spiritual life that is eternal, not our physical bodily life. When we leave this world and depart from our physical body, we will go to one of two places: Heaven (being forgiven by Jesus here on this Earth) or Hellfire (with our sin remaining on us). In either case, our spirit will reunite with a new body, an eternal body, one that is literally immortal. For the soul going off to Heaven it will be love and peace and unending growth and prosperity. For the one who has rejected Jesus Christ's offer of forgiveness, their sin will overtake them and they will only burn in agony and torment in the unquenchable flames of Hell forever. ----- There is this binary end to your life: Heaven or Hell. And it has to do entirely with what you did with Jesus. Ask Him to forgive your sin today, and pass from eternal death to eternal life today. Begin the next chapter of your existence, the one that is written in eternal life, and ends happily ever after. Thank you, Rick C. Hodgin |
| rami18 <coco@coco.com>: Jul 18 02:09PM -0400 Hello... Read this: C++ MemPool for real-time systems was updated to version 1.09 You can download it from: https://sites.google.com/site/aminer68/c-mempool-for-real-time-systems And Delphi and FreePascal MemPool for realtime systems was updated to version 1.02 You can download it from: https://sites.google.com/site/aminer68/mempool-for-realtime-systems Thank you, Amine Moulay Ramdane. |
| "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jul 18 07:36AM -0700 There is a corollary thread on comp.lang.c: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.c/1F8H2QfQDdM/We0vZ8G6BwAJ Some questions have been asked and answered. It is informative. Thank you, Rick C. Hodgin |
| Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk>: Jul 18 11:13AM +0100 On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 11:00:20 -0700 (PDT) rep_movsd <rep.movsd@gmail.com> wrote: [snip] > In actuality I need to parse a LISP cons like data structure (which > is a multiway tree), so the statically allocated thing is likely to > be limiting. This won't work in C++. constexpr expressions are not like lisp macros: you don't have the whole language available for constructing at compile time the output form which is to be evaluated at run time, as you do with a lisp. Everything in a constexpr expression is a literal of some kind - a compile-time constant or a literal type, or a constexpr function taking and returning literal types. This means amongst other things that you cannot do anything in a constexpr expression which allocates memory. More generally, you cannot return or take as parameters non-literal types, including std::string. As a very trivial example, a lisp macro can call the language's time functions to embed the time of compilation in the compiled binary. This absolutely won't work in C++ (you would use the __DATE__ and __TIME__ macros instead). Have a look at this: http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/constexpr |
| Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk>: Jul 18 11:35AM +0100 On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:13:04 +0100 > as you do with a lisp. Everything in a constexpr expression is a > literal of some kind - a compile-time constant or a literal type, or a > constexpr function taking and returning literal types. On reflection I suppose it is worth adding first that you couldn't parse a cons structure (singly-linked list composed of pairs) in a lisp macro either, unless the list structure is a literal known at compile time, for obvious reasons; and secondly that you could write a parser in C++ to operate on such a compile time structure as a code generator and then compile that - which is more or less what a lisp macro does. |
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