Wednesday, August 22, 2018

Digest for comp.lang.c++@googlegroups.com - 11 updates in 4 topics

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>: Aug 22 08:52AM +0200

> from the truth. He thinks that smoking pot is a sin.
> I used to drink too much in college, but now I only
> drink a little and I've never done illegal drugs.
 
The number of wild leaps you make here are extraordinary.
 
First there is a blog post about a problem in the standard (of which
there are probably hundreds of greater importance than this one) - which
turns out to be something totally different (a missing point in the
Itanium ABI which means gcc and clang can't compile the code, and a bug
in MSVC that means it /does/ compile the code and breaks the ABI
standard), and indeed irrelevant to the guy's original problem.
 
Then you move on to accusing C++ committee members of being alcoholics
or drug abusers, and of /intentionally/ sabotaging C++.
 
This is your call for a "royal priesthood" of C++ - presumably, from
past posts, you will humbly take on this role appointed by your god who
apparently doesn't give a shit about wars, diseases, the overheated
garbage pile we are making of the earth, but is desperate to give
humanity a new messiah with the job of saving us from an inability to
make obscure proxy templates in C++.
 
And when people tell you you are off your head, it is apparently because
they think that some insignificant political commentator is on drugs?
 
Did I miss anything?
 
Did you actually want to say anything about C++?
bitrex <user@example.net>: Aug 22 03:58PM -0400


> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises
> http://webEbenezer.net
 
I don't like supporting the alcohol industry financially at all, in the
US at least it's an industry where the 80-20% rule strongly applies the
bulk of the profits comes from addicts, meanwhile the other 80% of
Americans are virtual teetotalers.
 
The 20%'s lives depend on cutting back while the 80% should probably
have a beer and smoke a weed from time to time might help them relax
because gosh Americans can be an uptight bunch sometimes
bitrex <user@example.net>: Aug 22 04:03PM -0400

On 08/21/2018 11:12 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
 
>> I think we might agree that virtue is important to any endeavor.
 
> I think we might all agree that is a non sequitor, and not relevent
> to C++.
 
I think we might all agree that the developers of Forth were smoking crack
jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>: Aug 22 11:07PM +0200

Le 22/08/2018 à 08:52, David Brown a écrit :
> garbage pile we are making of the earth, but is desperate to give
> humanity a new messiah with the job of saving us from an inability to
> make obscure proxy templates in C++.
 
YEEEESSSSSS!!!!!
 
We NEED those proxy templates more than anything else!
 
:-)
 
All religious zealots are equally comic, and this one is no exception.
Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com>: Aug 22 04:56PM -0500


>> I think we might all agree that is a non sequitor, and not relevent
>> to C++.
 
>I think we might all agree that the developers of Forth were smoking crack
 
 
I've met Chuck Moore, the developer (singular) of Forth, and he really
didn't seem the type. Not to mention the fact that widespread
availability of crack cocaine long post-dates the invention of Forth.
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Aug 22 12:59PM -0700

There is a large body of evidence that we are approaching the time
of the end. This current time we live in (2017-2018) is considered
a Jubilee year by God, which is every 50th year set aside for this
purpose.
 
Historically we can see major events taking place with regards to
Israel on this timeline. Specifically, in 1967-68 Jerusalem was
reclaimed by Israel and made its capital. In 2017, that capital
was recognized by the U.S., the most powerful nation on Earth.
One hundred years prior in 1917-1918, the Balfour Declaration was
written, whereby Great Britain issued a statement that the Jewish
people should be given a homeland. This led to the creation of
the nation state of Israel in one day in 1947-1948, which is a
period of time 70 years prior to this current 2017-2018 timeframe.
 
We read in Genesis that God decreed that the number of a man's
years shall be 120 years. As is a pattern in the Bible, things
that are written one way for one reason are often used also another
way for another reason.
 
God established the 50-year cycle, which is the year after the
7th seven of years (49th year, then comes the Jubilee year). It
was a time in Israel where all land was to be returned to its
owners, and a time of release from bondage, etc. It was a year
of "jubilee!"
 
Following the pattern of the Jubilee cycle from the beginning of
creation to the time established by ages given in the Bible (the
Bible only records years, and not months of births), coupled to
the time of major events aligning up in the Heavens (signs that
were foretold over two thousand years ago as to what signs there
would be in the end-times), and coupled to the major events which
have occurred on a cadence with regards to Israel ... we are now
in the 6,000th year since creation. Why is 6,000 significant?
Because it's 120 Jubilees (120 * 50 = 6000). It's also the 40th
Jubilee since Jesus walked the Earth (40 * 50 = 2000). And this
year was Israel's 70th birthday since becoming a nation again.
In the Bible, the numbers 40, 70, and 120 are significant, as are
other numbers.
 
If this is all accurate, and we are in the 6,000th year of creation,
then we remember from scripture in the Old Testament and New, that
"to the Lord a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is
as a day," then we can see that 6,000 years = 6 days. The Lord
created all He did in six days, and on the 7th day He rested. And
what comes after this 6,000 year period in the Biblical timeline?
A thousand years of peace where Jesus is upon the Earth again in
His glory. There will be no war during this time, no strife. He
will rule with an iron sceptor. Things will be returned on the
Earth to the way they were before sin entered in. The wolf will
lay down with the sheep. A child will lay down in a nest of adders
and not be harmed.
 
The Biblical timeline looks like this:
 
https://answersingenesis.org/bible-timeline/
https://answersingenesis.org/bible-timeline/the-world-born-in-4004-bc/
https://biblehub.com/timeline/
 
You can see from the waterfall chart below things notably changed
for mankind after the flood. The entire Earth's surface was alter-
ed, as was the first heaven (the air), resulting in shorter life-
spans and a change in the nature of our life here. Under the great-
er air pressure and protection from the sun, things used to grow to
be a lot bigger, as is observed in the fossil record. It made the
things God created like pterodactyls able to fly with their small
surface wingspan, and large dinosaurs with nostrils no larger than
those of a horse able to breathe.
 
The Earth used to have a water shield above the air which provided
greater air pressure. It was broken up and after that protection
no longer existed, man began to change on the Earth very quickly.
 
http://members.home.nl/frankcolijn/frankcolijn/The_timeline.htm
 
-----
Where are we today? We are the terminal generation. We are the
last generation that will live on this Earth as it has been. The
"time of Jacob's trouble" is coming upon the Earth for the entire
population. After the Christian church is raptured out, that time
will begin.
 
It will be a period of seven years, with the first 3.5 years being
a time of peace, and the last 3.5 years being worse than anything
that's ever come upon the Earth before. The vast majority of the
world-wide population will die, leaving only handfuls of people
world-wide who survive the full seven years.
 
This is the time of God's judgment poured out upon all ungodliness,
as has been foretold in scripture for the past ~1900 years for the
Christian New Testament, and for approximately 2700 years for the
Old Testament prophesies of the end times.
 
The only way to escape the coming wrath is to ask Jesus to forgive
your sin and save you from death, Hell, and the grave, and in so
doing you pass from death to life, and will not be appointed to
that wrath, but unto salvation whereby when the Lord returns to
receive those who are His, you are called up with the others who
believe and have asked forgiveness for their sin, to be caught up
in the clouds and have a reunion in the air with all those loved
ones you've lost in the past who were also believers.
 
-----
What is coming upon the Earth in the near future is unprecedented
in human history. The Bible records incredible destruction from
the forces of nature, and not just man warring with his fellow man.
It is both the time of God's wrath, and also the time of the rest-
oration of Israel, God's chosen people, such that the Jewish rem-
nant which remain will become the "Christians" of that era, filled
with His Holy Spirit, and pointing people to come to Jesus and ask
forgiveness once the church is raptured out.
 
All of this is recorded in the Bible. It takes study and a focus
to find it, as this information is not given to those who are per-
ishing. It is only given to those who are being saved, and those
who are willing to seek out the truth with a real truth-seeking
effort will come to this information, and it will lead them to
Christ, and it will save their eternal soul by that leading, for
it is only Jesus Christ who has the willingness, power, and the
necessary authority to forgive our sin (because of what He did on
the cross).
 
-----
 
Father, I pray that those reading this warning will take heed.
That they will not discount these writings as those of a lunatic
madman, but will ponder them in their truest heart. And if not,
then when the rapture does occur I pray they will come back to
these writings and look at them again on the far side of proof,
that even in those times will have many alternate explanations
given for what just happened, but by having seen these words and
remembering them, then, and prayerfully then, will they know the
truth, and that truth with then make them free.
 
Father, I have taught them how much you love them, that you are
willing to forgive all of their sin against you, against Heaven,
against their fellow man, and even against their own bodies. I
have taught them the way to salvation, the way to eternal life,
and I have done my part in living the life you have set out for
me. When I am gone from this world, I ask you to bless them in
knowledge and understanding so that they too might be saved.
 
I ask and I pray for these things in Jesus' precious and holy name.
Amen.
 
--
Rick C. Hodgin, a prayerful servant of Jesus Christ, and a Watchman
looking for that great and glorious day of our Lord's return where
all who are in Him will be caught up into Heaven in the twinkling
of an eye, in an instant, before that beginning of a great time of
tremendous sorrow for those left upon the Earth, as a seven year
tribulation period.
 
PS -- Remember, you can still be saved during this period, so do
not take the mark that everyone will be required to take on their
right hand or forehead, and ask Jesus to save you if you find you
remain on the Earth after the rapture. He will save you. It's
why He came to the Earth as He did ... God in the flesh to give
you the way back to be with Him where He is in Heaven forever.
Jesus described Heaven as paradise to the thief on the cross. He
longs with greatest longing to give you that paradise as well.
Receive Him and save your soul, and lead your family, friends, co-
workers, classmates, and neighbors to this great and glorious off-
ering of love. Love for you. Love for all time.
 
PPS -- I love you. It's why I have taken the time to teach you
these things over my time on these forums. May the Lord pour out
His Holy Spirit upon you, that you too can know and see and believe
and do, that you and your whole family may be saved. Amen.
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>: Aug 22 07:14AM

On Tue, 2018-08-21, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> const unless that stops it from compiling.")
 
> The idea with this is, of course, that it will catch unintentional
> modifications of those variables.
 
I agree, of course, but I distrust "always" and the idea about doing
it almost mechanically. I want to write that 'const' only after
deciding "I don't think I'll want this to change".
 
Because, if I think about it for a second and still am unsure, it's a
sign that I don't have a clear plan for the function or class as a
whole. Then I should take a step back and think.
 
> there can only be performance benefits from it, never drawbacks.
> (Even if the constexprness never realizes itself at compile time,
> you haven't lost anything in terms of performance.)
 
I /have/ noted that I almost never use constexpr. But whenever I
check a specific const, I seem to find making it constexpr wouldn't
buy me anything.
 
I don't want to go the way Alf went with the new-style function
signatures.
 
/Jorgen
 
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>: Aug 22 06:45AM -0400

On 08/22/2018 03:14 AM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
 
> Because, if I think about it for a second and still am unsure, it's a
> sign that I don't have a clear plan for the function or class as a
> whole. Then I should take a step back and think.
 
I am, in general, a strong believer in planning ahead to avoid
difficulties. However, you have to look at the potential costs of
running into those difficulties, and compare them to the costs of
avoiding them, when deciding how much effort to put into planning. In
this case, the cost of running into those difficulties are quite small
if you default to 'const' whenever you're not sure.
 
In well-written C++ code, if you declare something to be 'const' that
actually needs to be modified, you're extremely likely, when you attempt
to compile the code that actually attempts to modify it, to get a
diagnostic that clearly identifies the problem. Upon seeing that
diagnostic, as always, you should consider whether to change the
offending code or the decision to declare the relevant identifier
'const'. It's trivial to remove the 'const' if that's the choice that
you make. There's even a small advantage to deferring this decision
until the diagnostic occurs: at that time, you'll know a lot more
details about how you're going to use the relevant identifier, and can
make a correspondingly better decision about whether it should be 'const'.
bitrex <user@example.net>: Aug 22 10:53AM -0400

On 08/21/2018 11:58 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> there can only be performance benefits from it, never drawbacks.
> (Even if the constexprness never realizes itself at compile time,
> you haven't lost anything in terms of performance.)
 
I'm ambivalent about this, in addition to allowing optimizations I think
"const" and "constexpr" should also express intent, that is to say a
constexpr class or method is one that is primarily intended to be
instantiated with/operate on data that is believed pretty likely to be
available at compile time e.g. template parameters.
 
By attaching "constexpr" to everything under the sun on the off chance
that something, somewhere, maybe be able to be optimized in a way you
didn't think of you lose intent in exchange for...what. Who can say
exactly. Maybe nothing.
 
It seems kind of like premature optimization and cargo-culty to me.
"Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Aug 22 10:56AM -0700

On Tuesday, 21 August 2018 22:58:08 UTC+3, Vir Campestris wrote:
> about 50 or so for the parallel parts, and 5 fold for the whole thing.
> (we're now down to 10 minutes, which is little enough that we're not
> bothering to try too hard to improve it).
 
Most often programmer does not really need most of that 500K SLOC
product compiled. He can work with single or few files (and unit
tests to those) locally. My experience is that non-trivial constexpr
algorithm can cause "compiling coffee-breaks" even in that
environment.
 
> OTOH that code is run on embedded ARM CPUs. Middle of the range ARMs,
> not top end ones. So it's worth a bit of pain at build time.
 
Constexpr can give impressive results at the end regardless of CPU.
Doing as much as possible compile-time in critical paths can boost
run-time performance by orders of magnitude. What I wanted to express
was that it does not usually help us to "fail faster" on incorrect
behavior.
Manfred <noname@add.invalid>: Aug 21 11:19PM +0200

On 8/21/2018 10:37 PM, Richard wrote:
>> RPC call for which COM needs an interface pointer.
 
> You can do it with custom marshalling, which you would need because as
> you say COM doesn't know how to marshall a function pointer.
 
Er no, not even with custom marshaling - a function callback pointer
(note: callback) is defined in the context of the address space of the
process passing the pointer. As the receiving process gets the pointer
(with custom marshaling), it would have no way to invoke the callback on
the other process - it would need to perform a COM call which requires
an interface pointer.
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