| Bo Persson <bop@gmb.dk>: Feb 02 07:52PM +0100 On 2015-02-02 19:14, Stefan Ram wrote: > That is, the interface »C« has managed to keep up with new > developments and is still on top in 2015, while »C++«, the > fad language of the 90s, slowly decays into oblivion. "Slowly" being the key word here? The trend seems to be 1 position down every 10 years or so. Means it will leave the top 20 chart within 150 years? Also see that the new rising stars are COBOL, Assembly and Visual Basic. That's the future for sure! Bo Persson |
| "Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Feb 02 11:04AM -0800 On Monday, 2 February 2015 20:47:01 UTC+2, Stefan Ram wrote: > 2 2 Java 15.528% -1.00% > 3 3 Objective-C 6.953% -4.14% > 4 4 C++ 6.705% -0.86% 5 5 Software that users use most often is written in (or generated) Javascript that is running in browser. Back-end is also sometimes Javascript for example with NODE.js. These skewed lists however always show it on 7-9th place. |
| "Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Feb 02 01:01PM -0800 On Monday, 2 February 2015 21:18:58 UTC+2, Stefan Ram wrote: > 2015« shows C++ ranked even lower than on TIOBE and > sourceforge, on place 5. So, whereever one looks, C++ is > dying. :D I feel C++ is sitting very well. None of the major platform vendors or otherwise powerhouses mentions it in public but all that want to make something serious use it and pay well. Tools are mostly free. The changes by C++11 and C++14 make achieving efficiency and safety far more simple and natural than it was with C++03. The "sanitizers" shipped with clang for Linuxes are very helpful too. Dying. :D |
| jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net>: Feb 02 10:05PM +0100 Le 02/02/2015 19:03, Stefan Ram a écrit : > The resolution of the output device is an implementation > detail not visible in the source code. That's the theory. Praxis: PixelOn(x,y,color); You can't do that? Then there are people that will get mad, others will not care, etc. |
| Christopher Pisz <nospam@notanaddress.com>: Feb 02 03:07PM -0600 On 2/2/2015 1:18 PM, Stefan Ram wrote: > 2015« shows C++ ranked even lower than on TIOBE and > sourceforge, on place 5. So, whereever one looks, C++ is > dying. Well, regardless of what programming language people use more, my original point was that I don't think graphics is "part of any language", but rather part of a library or framework that ships with the tools for that language. IMO OpenGL used to be just that. As far as I know, both Windows and Linux both came with the libraries installed with their OSes and a C++ developer could readily use it. I believe it had a comittee of some sort and they decided what to roll into it and how. I never was an OpenGL guru, much less a novice though. I opted to go the DirectX route since I was almost always on a Windows platform, plus MS made OpenGL a little more difficult to use and made it unreasonable to use it on Windows. Of course OpenGL was low level, and there were libraries built on top of that for standard windows and the like. I am not sure what the popularity of languages has to do with anything, even if they were listed accurately. |
| Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>: Feb 03 10:10AM +1300 Stefan Ram wrote: > 2015« shows C++ ranked even lower than on TIOBE and > sourceforge, on place 5. So, whereever one looks, C++ is > dying. As they say on some well known beer adds in my part of the world "yeah right!" -- Ian Collins |
| scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal): Feb 02 09:19PM >IMO OpenGL used to be just that. As far as I know, both Windows and >Linux both came with the libraries installed with their OSes and a C++ OpenGL started life as the proprietary Iris GL which was used by SGI IRIX systems as a 3D graphics toolkit. As PC graphics cards became more than toys, around 1998/1999; SGI read the writing on the wall and realized that their expensive, proprietary MIPS-based workstations (and how I loved my dual-head two processor R10K Octane!) were soon to be eclipsed by PC's with PII/PIII and reasonably good third-party graphics cards. SGI even built a Windows PC in alignment with this strategy. Didn't keep them in the workstation bidness, however. It was a fun place to work in the 90's, that's for sure. https://www.opengl.org/wiki/History_of_OpenGL |
| scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal): Feb 02 09:55PM > is needed with Windows, a different set is needed for > Solaris, and yet another for Linux.« -- Jeff Child >http://www.cotsjournalonline.com/pdfs/2003/07/COTS07_softside.pdf That URL is 404. The idea of Java replacing ADA does lead to considerable amusement, given the real-time nature of much ADA code. Man findet sie zu schwer zu glauben. |
| Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk>: Feb 02 09:59PM On 2 Feb 2015 19:18:44 GMT > 2015« shows C++ ranked even lower than on TIOBE and > sourceforge, on place 5. So, whereever one looks, C++ is > dying. Yes, it's "dying" so badly that it is higher in rank than C and Objective-C on your latest statistics, which happened to be above it in the TIOBE index which you so enjoy. Anyone can produce particular statistics of choice from a particular measure to prove anything they want. You have a particular axe to grind, which you do repeatedly. I doubt anyone gives much weight to what you think, whatever their views on C++, C or Javascript. The fact is that C++ has a particular target area in which it is dominant and which is not going to go away for a long time, as also for that matter do C and even FORTRAN. All the languages you mention have areas where they are in the mainstream and areas where they are not. Big deal. Chris |
| Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com>: Feb 02 11:45PM +0100 On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 13:01:49 -0800 (PST) > efficiency and safety far more simple and natural than it was > with C++03. The "sanitizers" shipped with clang for Linuxes are > very helpful too. Dying. :D gcc is switching to C++ implementation, and clang is already C++. I only see Nim(rod) (it compiles to C,C++ and Obj-C and JS with limitations, optional GC) as serous replacement for C++, so far, but it is not 1.0, yet. Whoever likes python, perl that is ;) There is also Rust (C syntax, no GC), but it is not stable yet (not 1.0). So really there is no real alternative to C++, yet. |
| Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com>: Feb 02 11:55PM +0100 On Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:55:54 GMT > That URL is 404. > The idea of Java replacing ADA does lead to considerable > amusement, given the real-time nature of much ADA code. Java has extremely good JIT compiler (written in C++). |
| ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram): Feb 02 07:18PM >Javascript for example with NODE.js. >These skewed lists however always show it on 7-9th place. I agree that JavaScript is ranked too low! The gut feeling says that more people use and learn JavaScript today than C++. »The RedMonk Programming Language Rankings: January 2015« shows another POV than TIOBE and sourcefore: »1 JavaScript, 2 Java, 3 PHP, 4 Python, 5 C#, 5 C++, 5 Ruby, 8 CSS, 9 C, 10 Objective-C, 11 Perl. 11 Shell. 13 R. 14 Scala, 15 Haskell, 16 Matlab, 17 Go, 17 Visual Basic, 19 Clojure, 19 Groovy.« The situation is very chaotic with »Visual Basic«, since Microsoft uses that term to refer to VB.net, while the rest of the world uses »VB.net« for »VB.net« and »VB« for classic VB. TIOBE does not seem to be aware of this problem. Also, Perl 5 and Perl 6 are two different languages, and one would like to see separate entries for them. However, »The RedMonk Programming Language Rankings: January 2015« shows C++ ranked even lower than on TIOBE and sourceforge, on place 5. So, whereever one looks, C++ is dying. |
| ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram): Feb 02 09:33PM >original point was that I don't think graphics is "part of any >language", but rather part of a library or framework that ships with the >tools for that language. »fopen«/»::std::ofstream« is not part of the C++ language proper, but of the C++ standard library. But the standard library of a language matters. It is the portable core, and I also use the library status to decide what I teach in my C++ courses: When the course is labeled »C++«, I teach the standard library, but I do not teach extension libraries. I deem the standard library to be part of the language, but not other extension libraries. In Java, JavaFX is part of the standard library of Java SE. So, I teach GUI programming in Java. Also sockets. In C++, there is no GUI library that is part of the standard library, so I do not teach GUI programming with C++, nor socket programming. In 2003, the Journal COTS reported that the military migrates away from Ada towards Java. The portable libraries of Java were recognized as an edge over C++. »Another advantage Java offers is a broad selection of standard, portable and scalable libraries. That's where it has an edge over C++. While C++ has some good libraries, they're not portable---one set of libraries is needed with Windows, a different set is needed for Solaris, and yet another for Linux.« -- Jeff Child http://www.cotsjournalonline.com/pdfs/2003/07/COTS07_softside.pdf http://www.purl.org/stefan_ram/pub/c++_standard_extensions_en |
| Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid>: Feb 02 10:48AM -0800 On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 03:39:56 -0800 (PST), ghada glissa >exp: >56791 --> binary 1101110111010111 ---> represented on 2 bytes >56700911 --> binary 11011000010010111111101111 ----> represented on 4 bytes Short answer: No. Define "decimal number". You have given examples of integers. Do you mean any of the standard integral types or are you defining your own? If you are defining your own then you must provide that functionality if you need it. In your examples the first one might be of type short, the second of type int on a modern 32-bit compiler. The size of any standard numeric type is invariant across that particular type for that particular implementation. The sizeof operator is the proper and standard method for obtaining the size of those types. One would use sizeof(long) or sizeof(int) sizeof(short) for example. |
| Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid>: Feb 02 10:49AM -0800 On Mon, 02 Feb 2015 11:55:35 -0600, Christopher Pisz >However, a double is a double regardless of what it contains at the >time. If you are on Window's it will always be 8 bytes. Float - 4, and >so on. sizeof tells you this. Where did he say anything about a floating point number? |
| Christopher Pisz <nospam@notanaddress.com>: Feb 02 01:03PM -0600 On 2/2/2015 12:49 PM, Geoff wrote: >> time. If you are on Window's it will always be 8 bytes. Float - 4, and >> so on. sizeof tells you this. > Where did he say anything about a floating point number? I inferred it from his use of the word decimal. Same thing applies if it is a whole number. Any type uses a number of bytes on a given implementation that you would use sizeof to determine regardless of what the variable contains. He isn't being very clear in his question, thus the "are you asking?" question. I think he is looking for the minimum number of bytes it 'could' use, but I am not sure. |
| ghada glissa <ghadaglissa@gmail.com>: Feb 02 11:52AM -0800 > 4 > $ > scott Thanks a lot for your valuable help. |
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