- lamda-optimization - 18 Updates
- A way around _HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGGING - 5 Updates
- recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve - 1 Update
- Just bought https://leanpub.com/c20 - 1 Update
| Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org>: Jun 02 03:50PM +0200 On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 09:34:04 -0400, James Kuyper >This is an unmoderated newsgroup, which means that Keith can't do any >more to stop you from acting rudely than you can do to stop him from >pointing out your rudeness. Enjoy! Thus I am acting rudely because I defend a woman? what nicety, and what a pity. |
| James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>: Jun 02 10:14AM -0400 On 6/2/21 9:50 AM, Doctor Who wrote: >> more to stop you from acting rudely than you can do to stop him from >> pointing out your rudeness. Enjoy! > Thus I am acting rudely because I defend a woman? You're behaving rudely by discussing issues which aren't related to the topic of this newsgroup. You're being sexist by claiming that a woman deserves more respect than she would otherwise be entitled to if she were instead male, but that's a separate issue. And you're showing bad judgement by praising that particular woman, which is yet a third issue. Also, keep in mind that this is the internet - there's no guarantee that any particular person actually possesses the same gender that they claim to possess. According to you, would I be entitled to more respect if I posted using the name Juanita? |
| James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>: Jun 02 10:15AM -0400 On 6/2/21 3:39 AM, David Brown wrote: > I am confident that you are respectful to people you meet - independent > of their gender and anything else. Then the respect goes up or down > according to politeness, rudeness, knowledge, how they treat others, etc. Yes, that's an accurate summary of my intent. I should perhaps have said that "respect, beyond the basic respect that every person is entitled to, must be earned". |
| David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>: Jun 02 04:19PM +0200 On 02/06/2021 15:50, Doctor Who wrote: >> more to stop you from acting rudely than you can do to stop him from >> pointing out your rudeness. Enjoy! > Thus I am acting rudely because I defend a woman? You did not "defend a woman" - you /belittled/ a woman. (Assuming, of course, that Bonita /is/ a woman.) Gender does not matter in programming, or in discussions about programming. Therefore, any treatment based on gender in a forum about programming is necessarily sexist and prejudice. It doesn't matter whether you are attacking a person for their gender, or defending them because of it. You have, in essence, been saying that Bonita needs help to argue on the internet because she is merely a woman - it is clearly sexist on your part. (It is absolutely fine to call out and complain about prejudice of any sort - that is a different matter.) > what nicety, and what a pity. It is a pity that people are rude and sexist. I can't judge your motives - without further evidence, I can assume that you meant well and did not realise that you were being sexist. But now you know. |
| scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal): Jun 02 02:21PM >MrSpook_x510g@6uikovuenojv.gov.uk wrote: >>Calling someone stupid fits that description nicely. >AFAIK Bonita is a woman and as such you all owe her respect. That is two assumptions, and I've strong doubts about the first, and the second is silly. |
| Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org>: Jun 02 04:28PM +0200 On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 10:14:05 -0400, James Kuyper >any particular person actually possesses the same gender that they claim >to possess. According to you, would I be entitled to more respect if I >posted using the name Juanita? what a misinterpretation of my intentions: I never claimed woman merit "more" respect, I claimed woman merit respect, which was being negated in this case. In any case I just show my own respect for woman, and I am free to manifest my feelings like I want. and No, you wouldn't be entitled to more respect if your name was Juanita, you would need to show that you are polite and an exceptional programmer, then you would merit more respect :-) |
| Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org>: Jun 02 04:30PM +0200 On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 16:19:32 +0200, David Brown >It is a pity that people are rude and sexist. I can't judge your >motives - without further evidence, I can assume that you meant well and >did not realise that you were being sexist. But now you know. believe as you want, I take your words as a total herring from the truth. |
| Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org>: Jun 02 04:38PM +0200 On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 16:19:32 +0200, David Brown >Gender does not matter in programming, or in discussions about >programming. Therefore, any treatment based on gender in a forum about >programming is necessarily sexist and prejudice. It doesn't matter the problem at hand is not the forum, but the person which was being negated respect, and according to nickname she is a woman. >because of it. You have, in essence, been saying that Bonita needs help >to argue on the internet because she is merely a woman - it is clearly >sexist on your part. Yes! and I am free to help anybody I want to help. |
| scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal): Jun 02 02:45PM >what a misinterpretation of my intentions: I never claimed woman merit >"more" respect, I claimed woman merit respect, which was being negated >in this case. Respect should be earned. Politeness should be de rigueur. |
| David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>: Jun 02 05:46PM +0200 On 02/06/2021 16:38, Doctor Who wrote: >> programming is necessarily sexist and prejudice. It doesn't matter > the problem at hand is not the forum, but the person which was being > negated respect, and according to nickname she is a woman. You are free to complain about people being rude or disrespectful - you are /not/ free to do so because someone is (or appears to be) a woman. If you had asked Mr. Spock to be more respectful and polite, that would have been fine. But you said he should be respectful because she is a woman - no other reason. /That/ is sexist, and disrespectful to Bonita. How can this be difficult for you to understand? (I know what it is like to communicate in a language other than one's mother tongue - if you think the language is an issue, please say so. You write perfectly good English so I will assume you understand my language.) >> to argue on the internet because she is merely a woman - it is clearly >> sexist on your part. > Yes! and I am free to help anybody I want to help. You are free to help - you are not free to be sexist (or bigoted in other ways) without being called out. |
| Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org>: Jun 02 05:58PM +0200 On Wed, 02 Jun 2021 14:45:41 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote: >>"more" respect, I claimed woman merit respect, which was being negated >>in this case. >Respect should be earned. Politeness should be de rigueur. again disagreeing totally. |
| Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org>: Jun 02 06:00PM +0200 On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 17:46:05 +0200, David Brown >have been fine. But you said he should be respectful because she is a >woman - no other reason. /That/ is sexist, and disrespectful to Bonita. >How can this be difficult for you to understand? because it is simply wrong. >> Yes! and I am free to help anybody I want to help. >You are free to help - you are not free to be sexist (or bigoted in >other ways) without being called out. effectively I am free to do and be as I like, this is the free internet. |
| Manfred <noname@add.invalid>: Jun 02 07:01PM +0200 On 6/2/2021 4:15 PM, James Kuyper wrote: >> On 02/06/2021 06:14, James Kuyper wrote: >>> On 6/1/21 11:10 PM, Doctor Who wrote: >>> ... It's also possible that Bonita and Doctor Who are the same person, and they are joyfully trolling along |
| Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>: Jun 02 10:11AM -0700 >>topic. > if you are not a moderator of this newsgroup please refrain from > trying to educate people on how they must behave online. You first. -- Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com Working, but not speaking, for Philips Healthcare void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */ |
| Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>: Jun 02 10:17AM -0700 Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org> writes: [...] > effectively I am free to do and be as I like, this is the free > internet. Yes, you are free to post whatever you want in this unmoderated newsgroup (which is carried on systems paid for by others, but that's not particularly relevant). I have seen nothing from you relevant to C++. I believe my view of this newsgroup will be improved by your absence, and fortunately my newsreader provides the tools to make that happen. I do not intend to argue with you any further. (I would like to see others do the same, but of course that's up to them.) If you want to discuss C++, you're in the right place. If you want to discuss how we should respect women, you're not. And to be clear, this has nothing to do with whether you're right or wrong. -- Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com Working, but not speaking, for Philips Healthcare void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */ |
| Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org>: Jun 02 07:30PM +0200 On Wed, 02 Jun 2021 10:17:34 -0700, Keith Thompson >If you want to discuss C++, you're in the right place. If you want >to discuss how we should respect women, you're not. And to be clear, >this has nothing to do with whether you're right or wrong. poop. |
| Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org>: Jun 02 07:30PM +0200 On Wed, 02 Jun 2021 10:11:42 -0700, Keith Thompson >> if you are not a moderator of this newsgroup please refrain from >> trying to educate people on how they must behave online. >You first. poop. |
| Doctor Who <doc@tardis.org>: Jun 02 07:30PM +0200 >>>> ... >It's also possible that Bonita and Doctor Who are the same person, and >they are joyfully trolling along poop. |
| Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee>: Jun 02 04:46PM +0300 02.06.2021 15:49 Bonita Montero kirjutas: > Because i needed something like ptr = &*vec.end() and MSVC has iterator > -debugging by default Dereferencing vec.end() is UB, so you should not do this even if it appears to work in some situation. What's wrong with vec.data()+vec.size() ? |
| Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>: Jun 02 04:23PM +0200 >> Because i needed something like ptr = &*vec.end() and MSVC has iterator >> -debugging by default > Dereferencing vec.end() is UB, ... In theory, but there's for sure no actual vector-implementation where this doesn't work as long as you don't read from or write to the reference. The theory bases on architectures which might check the pointers inside the references when they're loaded to a register. F.e. CPUs with segment-registers might load the segment and the seg- ment might get checked; but such architectures aren't of any importance today. |
| Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee>: Jun 02 07:43PM +0300 02.06.2021 17:23 Bonita Montero kirjutas: >>> -debugging by default >> Dereferencing vec.end() is UB, ... > In theory, Says the person who complains that her code does not work in practice with a widespread implementation, unless specifically silenced with a _HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGGING macro (note: using this macro is deprecated by MS). |
| Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>: Jun 02 06:57PM +0200 > Says the person who complains that her code does not work in practice > with a widespread implementation, unless specifically silenced with a > _HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGGING macro (note: using this macro is deprecated by MS). That has nothing to do with pseudo-UB. |
| Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>: Jun 02 06:59PM +0200 > ... (note: using this macro is deprecated by MS). I want the code to work with older compilers. |
| Manfred <noname@add.invalid>: Jun 02 06:43PM +0200 On 6/2/2021 9:29 AM, David Brown wrote: > On 01/06/2021 20:21, Manfred wrote: >> On 6/1/2021 7:15 PM, David Brown wrote: [...] > integer type at a later date. Once the ABI for a platform has been > decided, intmax_t is fixed and no larger integer types can be introduced > without change and disruption that is well out of proportion for the gains. Technically, this is still a problem of the implementation, not of the standard. Granted, implementations and the standard have a long history of going along together, but still they are different things and they work at different levels. I believe you and Keith (his link is indeed instructive) when you say that there are ABI problems with intmax_t, but I am not convinced that they are absolutely objective - I may think there is some weight of the legacy of ABI definitions as they have been structured for decades. After all, in C passing arguments of varying type is not a new issue - structs have been part of the ABI since the beginning of time. It seems more likely to me that the drive to solve this issue is not strong enough because of the limited range of cases where this is really needed. As I wrote earlier the real need is probably somewhat for a niche area. >> with imaxdiv. It makes sense. > Perhaps I am missing something. What do the div functions give you that > the division operators do not (assuming an optimising compiler) ? I assume you mean the division /and/ remainder operators. Obviously the div functions give both formally in one operation, taking advantage of the ASM instructions that do that. I know that most optimizing compilers are able to combine a sequence of '/' and '%' into a single instruction, but this is relying on optimization, and thus not standardized. I now we are probably going to disagree on this point, but to me it is relevant that some feature, if it is important to the program, be possible to express in source code with no need to assume some behind-the-scenes compiler behavior. More importantly, in this last point I took the div functions as one example, in fact there is a whole family of those, ranging from abs to strtol, and even printf that are involved with intmax_t. |
| Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>: Jun 02 06:15PM +0200 It's an update-book from C++17 to C++20. Very easy to read. I can recommend it. |
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