Tuesday, January 9, 2018

Digest for comp.lang.c++@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 11 topics

Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>: Jan 09 06:19AM

> Peter became very upset with my posts in alt.os.development.
 
Because you are a fucking spammer and an asshole. Just shut up.
Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>: Jan 09 06:21AM

> The only reason you call it spam is because you don't know Jesus Christ,
 
And then you pretend you have no idea why I call you a liar.
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>: Jan 09 09:49AM +0100

On 08/01/18 21:51, Scott Lurndal wrote:
 
> He was not even born until decades after. Anything he wrote was hearsay by definition.
> In an age with no newspapers, no internet, no TV news and widespread illiteracy.
> Ever play the telephone game?
 
I find most of Rick's religious waffle easy to skip over - it is the
same old crap, again and again. Everyone - Christian, Atheist, whatever
- is possessed by the devil and going to hell unless we read the bible
enough to join Rick's particular one-man cult.
 
But what /really/ bugs me is his "evidence" - his claims that
scientists, historians, archaeologists, etc., are supporting his
nonsense. It is so hard to resist the temptation to point out the
logical and factual flaws - despite knowing that it will lead to more
off-topic threads. As an amateur history fan, and a layman scientist, I
really enjoy discussing "evidence" - primarily with people who are open
to discussion rather than "god did it" dogma. However, I have no wish
to encourage Rick's style of annoyance in this newsgroup.
 
(I have nothing against people with religious faith of any sort - if you
feel convinced there is a "god" of some sort, and feel he/she has
touched your life in some way, that's fine by me. Religious freedom is
a human right. And telling others about it is fine too. It is
/pushing/ those ideas on others that is the problem, it is claims about
"evidence" that I ridicule, and it is using your beliefs against
science, health, education, the environment, human rights, etc., that I
oppose.)
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 09 02:26AM -0800

On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 1:21:22 AM UTC-5, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The only reason you call it spam is because you don't know Jesus Christ,
 
> And then you pretend you have no idea why I call you a liar.
 
I don't know why you call me a liar.
 
I teach you the truth. The truth will set you free from sin and give
you eternal life.
 
That is truth. John 14:6. Jesus *IS* life.
 
--
Rick C. Hodgin
mcheung63@gmail.com: Jan 09 01:41AM -0800

fuck off
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>: Jan 09 06:39AM

On Thu, 2017-12-07, Chris Vine wrote:
...
> and BSDs also have kqueue).
 
> I believe windows has select() support, and also has its own
> windows-only event system as well
 
I seem to remember it's limited, and only works on networking sockets.
 
> (I don't program windows).
 
Me neither, so I might be dead wrong.
 
There's also Boost.Asio, if you want to learn and use an abstraction
on top of the OS. Although I imagine it's hard to use correctly if
you're not already familiar with non-blocking I/O ...
 
/Jorgen
 
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>: Jan 09 06:17AM

> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 1:11:30 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.
 
> Reported to abuse@giganews.com
 
Why don't you just shut up, you fucking spammer? Go to hell.
Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>: Jan 01 11:31AM +1300

On 01/01/2018 05:06 AM, David Brown wrote:
 
> There we go - rant over. I don't like 8051's, and I don't like when
> manufacturers make me use them (or chase me away from good peripherals
> due to their poor choice of cpu core).
 
As one of the lucky few to get hold of preproduction prototype 8751s
back in the early 80s I have to disagree! It was a big step up from the
8748s we had been using. I never had the (dubious) pleasure of
programming one in C, but had great fun writing complex assembly
solutions in the 4K of EPROM available to us. Bit addressable memory
was incredibly useful for the kind of products we were building at the
time, but I've no idea how is is exploited from C or C++.
 
--
Ian.
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>: Jan 01 05:00PM +0100

On 31/12/17 18:13, Dombo wrote:
> a 8-bit processor could do the job as well. Lower NRE, shorter time to
> market, easier grow path to more advanced versions of product may very
> well outweigh a small difference in BOM cost.
 
Yes.
 
> However at the most extreme end of the market (very high volume/very low
> retail price) every fraction of a cent still counts, and there is no
> thing like a "too small cost difference".
 
There is no extreme end where that is true - there is /always/ a
trade-off. Even for the most long-lived products, there are deadlines
and limits to development costs, and even the most mass-produced
products have limit production quantities in a given time period.
 
> associated RAM and ROM memory. A DAC (whose resistor network would
> occupy quite a bit of die real-estate) is usually omitted as PWM is for
> those applications good enough.
 
Agreed - this will vary from application to application.
 
 
> Also those applications typically don't use the smaller, more advanced
> (& more expensive) processes. That means the core, ROM and RAM still
> takes up quite a bit of die space.
 
That will vary. Small mass-produced systems rarely need a lot of RAM,
but can find ROM useful (such as for storing those irritating tunes).
An electric toothbrush, of course, does not need much ROM or RAM.
Typically the choice of process will be determined by many factors,
including other electronics on the chip (radio senders will need finer
processes, power electronics will be best with more robust processes)
and factory capacity.
 
> the job. Also for extremely low power applications (like clock,
> thermometer...etc.) a dedicated 4-bit processor can still have an edge
> compared to a more general purpose 8- or 32-bit processor.
 
These sorts of things are often done with dedicated devices that can
hardly be called a microcontroller.
 
> Given its functionality (on/off/charge) I'd expect a few discretes would
> suffice, yet apparently a 4-bit microcontroller was more economical, but
> something like a general purpose 8-pin PIC apparently too expensive.
 
There is a /huge/ gap between 4-bit microcontrollers and general purpose
off-the-shelf devices.
 
For the biggest quantity systems, you use a dedicated ASIC with a
microcontroller core. In some of these, you might still find 4-bit
cores - but I think it is rare, because the die area cost difference
between a 4-bit core and an 8-bit core is much smaller than it used to
be, while development times and time-to-market is more relevant than a
decade ago.
 
The next step down for not quite so big productions is to use ready-made
chips as bare die, rather than in a package. By that point, testing
costs for the die and mounting costs are getting more relevant.
 
And by the time you get to pre-packaged devices, the cost of a small
8-bit core is irrelevant.
 
Even when you are talking about very large quantities, fractions of a
cent spared here and there often don't amount to real savings. A
slightly better core might mean extra features, or shorter development
and prototyping time, or shorter production test times, or more re-use
of parts or code.
 
 
But all this is speculation on my part - I have no experience with large
production quantities. At my company, we only have a few products at
more than 10K boards per year - most are smaller runs than that.
 
> hobbyist scene due to the easy availability of the chips, tools &
> documentation and more recently the Arduino kits, but you don't find
> 8-bit AVRs that often in high volume products.
 
You are thinking of the Atmel products available to general customers.
A great deal more AVR cores are sold in ASICs than in off-the-shelf
microcontrollers. In fact, the off-the-shelf AVRs were started almost
as a side line to the main business of ASICs as someone thought that by
adding a few extra peripherals and better documentation they could sell
it to a wider audience with higher profit margins.
 
But you are right that AVR's are not very low end - as I said, Atmel
made a series of 4-bit microcontrollers too. The MARC4 devices were
targeted at infrared controls and wireless tyre pressure gauges amongst
other things. I have no idea how these compare to others in price -
they were just somewhat different in being available to mere mortals.
 
> the microcontroller market you find different players than the familiar
> players of the higher end microcontrollers (like Microchip, ST,
> Freescale....etc.).
 
Yes indeed - few people will have heard of them. However, even folks
like ST and Freescale make cores, ASICs, and dedicated chips for mass
productions. I read somewhere that the great majority of Coldfire cores
(Coldfire is the successor to the M68K family - certainly not low-end)
were in dedicated chips for single customers, rather than in readily
available processors and microcontrollers.
 
> Given how the market is developing even the 16-bit microcontroller
> families like the PIC24 and MSP430 don't appear to have a very bright
> future ahead of them.
 
The msp430 is still a fine choice in some areas. But I agree with you
here - it is not at all unreasonable to assume 32-bit for C++ libraries.
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>: Jan 01 07:41PM +0100

> ..., and readability not even on the list.
 
That's serious issue. I'm trying to avoid to trace into
the standard-library of VC++. It looks like ASCII-garbage.
"Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid>: Jan 01 01:54AM -0800

On 1/1/2018 1:28 AM, Ellen Ashley Hodgin wrote:
> Please save me
 
Try C?
Ellen Ashley Hodgin <ellen@gmail.com>: Jan 01 05:28PM +0800

Please save me
 
Ellen
"Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid>: Jan 01 01:06AM -0800

On 12/8/2017 10:02 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.
 
NO. The rapture is a LIE!
 
;^)
Intelli2 <intelli2@mama.com>: Jan 01 01:53PM -0500

Hello,
 
 
Another new scalable algorithm of mine is coming..
 
It is a Scalable Lockfree bounded FIFO queue, i am finishing
implementing it right now in Delphi and FreePascal and porting it to
C++, it will work on both Windows and Linux, it will be really powerful,
and i am updating my other scalable FIFO queues to avoid false-sharing
in the bounded version.
 
And my other scalable algorithms of a fully scalable Threadpool and of
an almost fully scalable Threadpool(because work-stealing is rare) are
coming soon, i am wanting to sell my scalable algorithms that are fully
scalable on NUMA and multicores systems and there implementations to
Embarcadero or to Microsoft.
 
Please stay tuned !
 
Thank you,
Amine Moulay Ramdane.
woodbrian77@gmail.com: Jan 08 07:40PM -0800

On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 1:43:09 PM UTC-6, Thiago Adams wrote:
 
> > https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards
 
> > Thanks in advance.
 
> Sorry, which one is your amalgamated?
 
I'm not down to just one header file yet.
 
> What is new?
 
These two files are the result of merging a lot of my smaller files:
https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards/blob/master/Buffer.hh
https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards/blob/master/wrappers.hh
 
I'm not sure I want to merge those two. It possible someone would
want to use just wrappers.hh and not the rest of the code.
 
> you.
> I have a tool/compiler that reads C code and generates
> C code.
 
That sounds familiar.
 
woodbrian77@gmail.com: Jan 08 07:42PM -0800

On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 1:16:34 PM UTC-6, Mr Flibble wrote:
 
Please don't swear here.
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>: Jan 09 12:45AM

On 08/01/2018 20:47, Richard wrote:
> frameworks like MFC.) wxWidgets and Qt have significant communities
> and a history of continuous improvement as well as platform
> portability. They have books written about how to use them.
 
wxWidgets is basically an antiquated egregious cross platform re-hash of
MFC and unworthy of further consideration for that reason.
 
 
> matching all of that is non-trivial and exceeding it is going to be
> particularly difficult given that Qt alone has probably a 10 person
> team working on improving it and adding features to it.
 
Qt started off as a 2-man project and wxWidgets, like neoGFX, started
off as a 1-man project.
 
 
> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
> except for toy projects.
 
Would you bet your life savings on that?
 
/Flibble
 
--
"Suppose it's all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I'd say, bone cancer in children? What's that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say."
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>: Jan 09 12:55AM

On 08/01/2018 19:49, Thiago Adams wrote:
 
> My suggestion for GUI libraries is starting the project
> creating a GUI editor that is implemented using the GUI
> library itself.
 
IMO a good GUI library should be easy to use with a GUI editor AND be
elegant to write code for. This is the primary goal for neoGFX.
 
/Flibble
 
--
"Suppose it's all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I'd say, bone cancer in children? What's that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say."
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 08 07:56PM -0500

On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
 
> Would you bet your life savings on that?
 
You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
refactors it to work with neoGFX.
 
How much will a neoGFX license cost for a commercial app?
 
--
Thank you! | Indianapolis, Indiana | God is love -- 1 John 4:7-9
Rick C. Hodgin | http://www.libsf.org/ | http://tinyurl.com/yaogvqhj
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software: LSA, LSC, Debi, RDC/CAlive, ES/1, ES/2, VJr, VFrP, Logician
Hardware: Aroxda Desktop CPU, Arxita Embedded CPU, Arlina Compute FPGA
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>: Jan 09 01:07AM

On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
> could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
> refactors it to work with neoGFX.
 
Alternatively I should not do that. I should not do that.
 
 
> How much will a neoGFX license cost for a commercial app?
 
Initially the commercial license will cost about 10% of a Qt commercial
license; it will always be price competitive.
 
/Flibble
 
--
"Suppose it's all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I'd say, bone cancer in children? What's that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say."
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 08 08:16PM -0500

On 1/8/2018 8:07 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> How much will a neoGFX license cost for a commercial app?
 
> Initially the commercial license will cost about 10% of a Qt commercial
> license; it will always be price competitive.
 
How does Qt licensing work? Their website says $295/month per
developer. Is that paid for as long as the Qt application is
used? Just during the time of development? Is it for a subscription
to the Qt tools? Or ... something else?
 
Will a developer be able to buy a one-time license fee for neoGFX?
Or will it be per month on an ongoing basis?
 
--
Thank you! | Indianapolis, Indiana | God is love -- 1 John 4:7-9
Rick C. Hodgin | http://www.libsf.org/ | http://tinyurl.com/yaogvqhj
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software: LSA, LSC, Debi, RDC/CAlive, ES/1, ES/2, VJr, VFrP, Logician
Hardware: Aroxda Desktop CPU, Arxita Embedded CPU, Arlina Compute FPGA
Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>: Jan 09 02:19PM +1300

On 01/09/2018 02:16 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
 
>> Initially the commercial license will cost about 10% of a Qt commercial
>> license; it will always be price competitive.
 
> How does Qt licensing work?
 
Answering that question keeps a legion of lawyers employed...
 
--
Ian.
Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com>: Jan 08 05:42PM -0800

On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil."
> "Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
> a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say."
 
What is the graphics back-end on windows? gdi, gdi+, direc2d?
Do you use native controls? Native menu?
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>: Jan 09 01:44AM

On 09/01/2018 01:42, Thiago Adams wrote:
>> a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say."
 
> What is the graphics back-end on windows? gdi, gdi+, direc2d?
> Do you use native controls? Native menu?
 
At the moment OpenGL; in the future DirectX (via OpenGL ES) and Vulkan
too. I do not use native controls.
 
/Flibble
 
 
--
"Suppose it's all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I'd say, bone cancer in children? What's that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say."
Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com>: Jan 08 05:59PM -0800

On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 11:45:05 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > Do you use native controls? Native menu?
 
> At the moment OpenGL; in the future DirectX (via OpenGL ES) and Vulkan
> too. I do not use native controls.
 
Do you have some dispatch mechanism? Some message system?
 
Do you know https://electronjs.org/?
What to you think of electron as an alternative of your UI?
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