- Merry CHRISTmas! - 8 Updates
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| "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Dec 26 11:11AM -0500 >> If you want to know the truth ... > There's no devil in the Genesis story either, just a talking serpent. You > need to read more. Daniel, you say I need to read more. I have over many years. It's why I now raise my voice to correct your misleading and misguided posts so that any harm you would seek to do will be shown for what it is: lies, and misunderstandings. In your prior message you say sin was not in the Garden of Eden. Your exact quote: "There is no mention in the Genesis story of the fall of man, and life in the Garden of Eden is never described as a sinless existence. These were elements introduced later by ancient interpreters." What is sin? It's missing the mark, an archery term. God had given Adam and Eve a standard in the Garden of Eden. They both knew it, and they consciously disobeyed it, and therefore suffered the consequences that God had told them would happen: Genesis 3:1-7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%203&version=KJV;NIV 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. This is Eve responding. She was made after Adam. The guidance God had given to Adam was also given to Eve. God gave Adam and Eve both a boundary line and a warning of what would happen if they crossed it. They were told not to cross it, so that when they did cross it that was sin. The fall of man comes as a result of their actions: Genesis 3:14-19 14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. The above is reinforced by what we read later on in scripture, as it was revealed 100s of years (over 1,000 years) after the above was written down: Romans 5:12-19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+5%3A12-19&version=KJV;NIV 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. And also a confirmation: 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Cor+15%3A45-1Cor+15%3A47&version=KJV;NIV 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. We live in the only world we've ever known. We just assume this is how it's always been, but it wasn't always like this. The Earth God created was a paradise. The Earth tended to itself. Nothing poisonous or harmful. No death in the conventional sense. God is the author of life, and everything He created was of that form. When sin entered in, something alternate was given. And it was from within that alternate path that what we have today became manifest. Not only did Adam and Eve die that day (spiritually), but God also changed the nature of the Earth, the nature of the plants and animals. Things changed once God no longer had His restraining power in place over everything. Once Adam effectively handed over the keys to Satan and said, "Here ya go, I'll follow you. Lead on, my new master," then all things changed, and man lost something we today don't realize we don't have because we've never had it -- that is our spirit nature. But all who come to Christ and are born again will receive it, and they will be aware from that point forward of what was lost, which is what drives them to reach out and teach and move and love and do despite all of the silly attacks like yours. The truth of the Bible is like a lion. You need not defend a lion. You simply turn it loose. It will defend itself. But to the ignorant, the unknowing, the enemy creeps into your thoughts, introduces things that seem plausible, seem to stand up and be correct, until you actually investigate and study, at which point that enemy's lies all crumble. You need to press in and seek with a truth-seeking heart the contents of the Bible. God has not left us without information and understanding of all things required to obtain salvation in this world. He's given us everything we need, and He's promised to teach us all things once we get past this world of sin and anarchy. ----- Now, you also say above that the devil is not the serpent stated in Genesis. Your exact quote: "There's no devil in the Genesis story either, just a talking serpent. You need to read more." We have a drop-in from Ezekiel, a bit of additional information that relates not to the king of Tyrus, but is referring to Lucifer, as is evidenced by the fact Tyrus was never in the Garden of Eden, and was not arrayed as is indicated. Tyrus doesn't have the abilities stated. So what we see here a glimpse of what Lucifer looked like physically, bodily. We also gain an understanding of why very successful musical artists and actors and what not begin to start wearing certain clothing. They're trying to recapture some of what their angelic bodies looked like by their clothing. You can see this in Elvis and his cape with patterns all over. And in people like Michael Jackson even possibly with his plastic surgery, not just his clothes, etc. Evil spirits are real, Daniel. They're leading you right now into believing things that are false so you'll believe them instead of God and be deceived until the end of your life where you, therefore, never did come to repent and be saved. Their goal is your soul's destruction in Hell alongside them, for every last evil spirit is literally eternally condemned. None of them will escape justice, the pure Justice of God. Ezekiel 28:11-19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+28%3A11-19&version=KJV;NIV 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. We read further in the Bible, as it is revelation for people at various times, whereas we here in the end-times have the full revelation up to this point (with only the great tribulation portion not yet known as a matter of history), that Satan was indeed the serpent. Revelation 12:9 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+12%3A9&version=KJV;NIV 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ----- And now, Daniel, here is a verse for you. It's a warning from the Lord for all who would cause those who seek the truth and teach the truth to stumble. It is a warning against your sin, and against your own soul: Matthew 18:6-7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+18%3A4-7&version=KJV;NIV 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Some people are so wrapped up in sin and loving sin they'll never see the truth. But there are still those who will be saved. The gospel message goes out for two purposes: 1) For those who will be saved, God combines the message going forth with His own movement within each person's inner man, such that the two combine to cause one to repent, ask Jesus for forgiveness, and are thereby immediately saved. And, 2) For evidence against those who will not believe, so that when they are cast into Hell it is not a matter of debate or questioning, but such that even the one being convicted and sentenced to an eternity in fire, they themselves will agree and acknowledge that God is fair and just, in that He first gave EVERY PERSON WORLD-WIDE MULTIPLE OPPORTUNITIES TO REPENT, AND THEY REFUSED EVERY ONE OF THEM. Your life is precious, Daniel. There is an enemy who deceives all of us. He's not an idle enemy of no standing. He is a significant enemy that requires us to put on a whole armor of God, a full knowledge of truth, the full faith of the believer to be wielded against his continuous onslaught of fiery darts which seek to pierce and destroy. God knows who are His, and He keeps those who are His. He sends in reinforcements, other saints of God, other voices, sometimes angels, to intervene and pray and help the souls who will be saved. These are the end-most times, the tick of the clock right before the seven-year great tribulation. This is the last opportunity people have to be saved and avoid what will soon follow. If you want to be saved, seek the truth. Press in and pursue it, and God Himself will bring it to you. He'll use men and women like me for confirmation and information, but it will be Him moving on the inside drawing you to His Son, Jesus Christ, that will be your salvation. Not by me, not by any man, but only by God Himself. I urge you with everything in me to stop teaching false things you don't know about, but only think you know about, so that you will stop condemning yourself, and stop having the punishment of those who hear your words and think they are reasonable and begin following them heaped upon your own head, and not just theirs as they depart in their error, which stems from your error. God wants to forgive people. He wants to teach them all things. He wants to lead us into all truth. He has a future planned for us. He has a present opportunity to serve Him and truth in this wanton world. God has not left us abandoned. People must consciously turn their back on God to keep Him away because He stands at the door and knocks. It is a constant beckoning. A voice always saying, "Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest for your soul." He seeks to save everyone. Lift up your thoughts to see that, Daniel. Lift up your eyes to Heaven and seek to learn, not to condemn or judge God based on the enemy's lies guiding your thinking into false things about God. Seek the truth and let God Himself correct your false thinking so that you do know the truth, and will be saved. -- Rick C. Hodgin |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.REMOVETHISBIT.co.uk>: Dec 26 05:09PM On 26/12/2020 16:11, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: > and life in the Garden of Eden is never described as a sinless > existence. These were elements introduced later by ancient > interpreters." Can't you fucking read? Can't you fucking comprehend simple English? Daniel said the Garden of Eden was NEVER described as SINLESS. Pay more attention to what people actually write before replying, spammer. /Flibble -- 😎 |
| "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com>: Dec 26 11:41AM -0800 On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 11:11:22 AM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: > I now raise my voice to correct your misleading and misguided posts so > that any harm you would seek to do will be shown for what it is: lies, > and misunderstandings. The main elements in the story are - Adam and Eve live in a Garden where all the food can be picked from trees. They walk around naked. - God, who is present in the Garden, tells them that they can eat from all the trees except the Tree of Knowing Everything. - A wise talking serpent encourages Eve to disobey God and eat from the forbidden tree, that by doing so they will acquire knowledge. - Adam and Eve do so, and acquire knowledge. For their disobedience, they are punished by God. Henceforth, childbirth will be painful, > 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy > sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring > forth children and Adam and his descendants will have to work hard as farmers, > 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, . > later on in scripture ... Later on in scripture other elements are introduced into the Genesis story by ancient interpreters, elements that are not present in the story itself. There is nothing in the story that suggests "the fall of man". There is nothing in the story that suggests any connection between the serpent and Satan. Serpents in ancient Near East mythology were often seen as the embodiment of wisdom, and the serpent in the story appears to be no different, being described as cleverer than other animals. Daniel |
| "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Dec 26 02:43PM -0500 > There is nothing in the story that suggests "the fall of man". There are none so blind as those who will not see. -- Rick C. Hodgin |
| "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com>: Dec 26 12:00PM -0800 On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 2:43:32 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: > On 12/26/20 2:41 PM, daniel...@gmail.com wrote: > > There is nothing in the story that suggests "the fall of man". > There are none so blind as those who will not see. Or that see things that aren't there :-) Best regards, Daniel |
| "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Dec 26 04:13PM -0500 > Or that see things that aren't there :-) Daniel, the enemy has you summarily rejecting the later revelations of God in the New Testament, which augment the earlier revelations given to us through the Old Testament. The Old Testament was pre-Pentecost. It was a rigorous legal system. The New Testament is post-Pentecost. It is of the spirit, an inner guiding that aligns with the Old Testament in many ways, but because Jesus has now taken away sin, it's different than the Law of Moses. Because the enemy teaches you something like the later authors of the Bible are not true, it makes it possible for you to discount their teachings. But that enemy's guidance is wrong. God's guidance for man has been a continual revelation for the time. Before Pentecost, only the Law of Moses. After Pentecost, things of spirit. Romans 5:12 KJV 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Adam sinned, and death entered into the entire world by His one sin. We each sin, but we also each carry His sin debt, which is our spirit is dead. He died spiritually when He ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and every child that came from his loins was flesh-only then, not of the spirit. Jesus came to take our sin away so that we would be able to be set free from sin, which makes our sin debt go away, which makes our spirit come alive, which restores us to what we were before the fall of man. As long as you hold on to the enemy's teaching that the later authors of the Bible are not real authors, or that the later interpretations that are traditionally held since the time of Christ are not real, you will be able to discount the teachings on those merits. But the truth is those merits are not truth. They're false. It's like you're going past a division-by-zero or something. It seems to make sense, but the division-by-zero invalidates it. In this case, it seems to make sense, but because you're denying something that should be denied, it invalidates your ability to conclude as you do. If you want to know the truth, it's there. If you want to hold on to to the lies, God will let you do so until you die, at which time the truth will then assert itself and you're version reality will be shown for what it is: falseness. The choice is yours. I'm leading you to the truth. Peace. -- Rick C. Hodgin |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.REMOVETHISBIT.co.uk>: Dec 26 09:31PM On 26/12/2020 21:13, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: [snipped usual garbage about sin, mostly tl;dr] And Satan invented fossils, yes? /Flibble -- 😎 |
| "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com>: Dec 26 02:53PM -0800 On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 4:14:14 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: > On 12/26/20 3:00 PM, daniel...@gmail.com wrote: > > Or that see things that aren't there :-) > Daniel, the enemy has you summarily rejecting the later revelations Rick, you're thinking about the bible in the way that it used to be understood, from the late biblical times through the middle ages. But modern biblical scholarship has sought to correct this view. The interpreters that shaped how you understand the bible were interpreting things that happened long before their time, and were putting a definite spin on more ancient texts to try to make them relevant to their own day. This is clearly seen in the later interpretations of the Genesis story, there is no mention of "the fall of man" or of Satan in the story itself. I would encourage you to explore some of the works of contemporary biblical scholars, I would particularly recommend James Kugel's "Early Biblical Interpretation" and "Traditions of the Bible: A Guide to the Bible As It Was at the Start of the Common Era." Best regards, Daniel |
| Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.REMOVETHISBIT.co.uk>: Dec 26 05:02PM T-minus 1 day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veUqfcyZ_Bo -- 😎 |
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