Thursday, January 3, 2019

Digest for comp.lang.c++@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 3 topics

Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee>: Jan 03 03:04PM +0200

Found a new C++ quiz question (in the hard way unfortunately). What does
the following program do when executed?
 
#include <iostream>
#include <stdint.h>
int main() {
uint16_t x = 50000;
uint16_t y = 50000;
uint32_t z = x*y;
std::cout << z << "\n";
}
 
Hint: when compiling with gcc do not forget the -ftrapv option.
Marcel Mueller <news.5.maazl@spamgourmet.org>: Jan 03 02:54PM +0100

Am 03.01.19 um 14:04 schrieb Paavo Helde:
>     uint32_t z = x*y;
>     std::cout << z << "\n";
> }
 
The result is platform dependent. When int has 16 bit it is just
undefined, because of the overflow.
In case of 32 bit int the result is still undefined because the result
does not fit into a 32 bit /signed/ int. However, the binary result of
the signed multiplication happens to be the same than the mathematical
correct result in case of 2's complement representation of signed numbers.
 
 
Marcel
Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee>: Jan 03 05:27PM +0200

On 3.01.2019 15:54, Marcel Mueller wrote:
> does not fit into a 32 bit /signed/ int. However, the binary result of
> the signed multiplication happens to be the same than the mathematical
> correct result in case of 2's complement representation of signed numbers.
 
Right, 32-bit int and 2's complement is the only environment I ever have
to care about, and knowing a bit of assembler there is no way how the
result could be wrong - that is, unless the compiler specifically ruins
it. When compiling the above with gcc on a common x86_64 Linux box:
 
> g++ -ftrapv -Wall -Wextra test1.cpp
> ./a.out
Aborted (core dumped)
 
Yes I know I asked it myself with the -ftrapv option, but I wanted to
use it in order to find out real bugs in the program, not the illusory ones.
"Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jan 03 08:19AM -0800

On Thursday, 3 January 2019 17:27:23 UTC+2, Paavo Helde wrote:
> Aborted (core dumped)
 
> Yes I know I asked it myself with the -ftrapv option, but I wanted to
> use it in order to find out real bugs in the program, not the illusory ones.
 
But 50000 * 50000 does overflow when int is 32 bits and signed
overflow is explicitly classified as undefined behavior. It is not
illusory but actual undefined behavior. The compiler makers were
quite anal with their "optimizations" exploiting that kind of
"undefined behaviors" only recently.
jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu: Jan 03 08:24AM -0800

On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 8:04:15 AM UTC-5, Paavo Helde wrote:
> std::cout << z << "\n";
> }
 
> Hint: when compiling with gcc do not forget the -ftrapv option.
 
If UINT_MAX == 0xFFFF, then x and y get multiplied as uint16_t values.
The product is well defined as 2500000000 modulo 0x10000 = 63744, which
then gets converted to uint31_t without change of value, with the result
that 63744 should be printed out by the cout.
 
In the extremely unlikely (but permitted) case that UINT_MAX > 65535
while INT_MAX < 65535, then x and y will both be promoted to unsigned
int before the multiplication, and the result will be 2500000000 modulo
(UINT_MAX+1ULL). This will be converted to uint32_t by taking it modulo
0x100000000, which might involve a change of value if
UINT_MAX > 0xFFFFFFFF. That value in decimal format will be printed out
by cout.
 
If INT_MAX > 65535, then x and y will both be promoted to int before the
multiplication. If so:
 
If INT_MAX >= 2500000000, then the multiplication will not overflow.
Converting the result to uint32_t in order to save it in z will leave
the value unchanged, and that is what will be printed out by cout.
 
Otherwise, the multiplication will overflow, with undefined behavior. However, if int is a 2's complement type, the actual behavior is likely to be exactly the same as the previous case.
 
Which of these cases applied when you found the answer "the hard way"?
Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee>: Jan 03 06:33PM +0200

> the value unchanged, and that is what will be printed out by cout.
 
> Otherwise, the multiplication will overflow, with undefined behavior. However, if int is a 2's complement type, the actual behavior is likely to be exactly the same as the previous case.
 
> Which of these cases applied when you found the answer "the hard way"?
 
32-bit int, 2's complement, gcc -ftrapv option. And of course the code
was not so simple as in this example, it was template code multiplying
large vectors of any numeric types.
bitrex <user@example.net>: Jan 03 12:04PM -0500

> the value unchanged, and that is what will be printed out by cout.
 
> Otherwise, the multiplication will overflow, with undefined behavior. However, if int is a 2's complement type, the actual behavior is likely to be exactly the same as the previous case.
 
> Which of these cases applied when you found the answer "the hard way"?
 
I think these type of interview questions are usually asked by places
who have a specific answer in mind and if you answer (correctly) with
"well, it depends" you're not going to get points for that - even the
interviewer hasn't fully thought it over.
 
I could've probably thought up the first paragraph UINT_MAX = 0xFFFF
case on the spot recalling unsigned integer overflow is generally
well-defined while signed is not but as for the rest of it I doubt it.
Do I win? Do I lose?
 
Unsigned integer wrap is listed by SEI CERT C++ standard as a "likely"
error with Severity: High - it's a security risk when indexing into
arrays hello stack overflow! I might frame my answer in terms of that
whatever happens exactly don't do it!
bitrex <user@example.net>: Jan 03 12:08PM -0500

On 01/03/2019 12:04 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> likely to be exactly the same as the previous case.
 
>> Which of these cases applied when you found the answer "the hard way"?
 
> I think these type of interview questions
 
With the possibly incorrect assumption that's in fact what it was,
depending on the job interview questions about common C++ mistakes which
are judged to be severe security risks when done wrong is probably a
good idea
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>: Jan 03 06:26PM +0100

>> }
 
>> Hint: when compiling with gcc do not forget the -ftrapv option.
 
> If UINT_MAX == 0xFFFF, then x and y get multiplied as uint16_t values.
 
Effectively, but formally not quite.
 
In this case type `int` cannot represent all values of the source type
`uint16_t`, and so integral promotion of the operands to `*`, IF it is
performed, will convert them to `unsigned`. Which in this case is also
16 bits. So that's the "effectively", but the formal type for the case
of promotion is `unsigned`, not `uint16_t`, which *might* be a distinct
type, e.g. `unsigned short`.
 
Promotion can happen when `uint16_t` is a distinct type from `unsigned`,
e.g. when it's `unsigned short`, so that it has lower conversion rank
than `int`.
 
Relevant standardese:
 
C++17 §8.6/2 about multiplicative operators, including `*`: "The usual
arithmetic conversions are performed on the operands and determine the
type of the result."
 
C++17 8/11.5 about usual arithmetic conversions: "Otherwise [not
floating point], the integral promotions (7.6) shall be performed on
both operands. Then the following rules shall be applied […]"
 
C++17 §7.6/1 about integral promotion: "A prvalue of an integer type
other than bool , char16_t , char32_t , or wchar_t whose integer
conversion rank (7.15) is less than the rank of int can be converted to
a prvalue of type int if int can represent all the values of the source
type; otherwise, the source prvalue can be converted to a prvalue of
type unsigned int"
 
C++17 $7.15/1.3, about conversion ranks: "The rank of long long int
shall be greater than the rank of long int, which shall be greater than
the rank of int, which shall be greater than the rank of short int,
which shall be greater than the rank of signed char."
 
C++17 $7.15/1.4: "The rank of any unsigned integer type shall equal the
rank of the corresponding signed integer type."
 
So, in the case where promotion is performed, which as far as I can see
is only when `uint16_t` is defined as `unsigned short`, the result type
is `unsigned`, not `uint16_t`.
 
Disclaimer: it's late in the day for me, AND I don't have a
standard-conforming 16-bit C++ compiler to try this out on. But. Still
sounds right when I read what I wrote! :)
 
 
> the value unchanged, and that is what will be printed out by cout.
 
> Otherwise, the multiplication will overflow, with undefined behavior. However, if int is a 2's complement type, the actual behavior is likely to be exactly the same as the previous case.
 
> Which of these cases applied when you found the answer "the hard way"?
 
Cheers!,
 
- Alf
jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu: Jan 03 09:28AM -0800

On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 11:33:41 AM UTC-5, Paavo Helde wrote:
 
> 32-bit int, 2's complement, gcc -ftrapv option. And of course the code
> was not so simple as in this example, it was template code multiplying
> large vectors of any numeric types.
 
So, does the range of behavior described above match how your template
should behave, depending upon the types involved? If not, you should
change your code so the defined behavior does match your desires.
Assuming that the template parameters corresponding to uint16_t and
uint32_t are named T and U respectively, then
 
U z = U(x)*U(y);
 
might reduce the number of unexpected results (depending upon what you're expecting).
 
However you said that this template is intended for use with any numeric
type. keep in mind that if T, for instance, is double, and U is float,
there's the possibility that x*y might have a value that is in the
normal range of values for float, but U(x) might fail because x is too
big, or U(y) might suffer unnecessary loss of precision because y is too
small; either way, U(x)*U(y) would not give the best result.
 
Similar but more complicated issues arise if T is a complex type, and U
is a real type.
jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>: Jan 03 12:10PM +0100

Le 29/12/2018 à 16:05, Mr Flibble a écrit :
> Jesus believed that homosexuals should be put to death (Leviticus 20:13).
 
And for those that do not know what is written there here it is:
 
<quote from those biblic abominations: levitihicus 20:13)
 
If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have
committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood
shall be upon them.
<end quote>
 
This piece of shit is responsible for the death of thousands of people
that didn't commit anything reprehensible. It is a piece of a wider
abomination called:
 
RELIGION
gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack): Jan 03 11:19AM

In article <q0kqjg$91h$1@dont-email.me>,
jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
...
>that didn't commit anything reprehensible. It is a piece of a wider
>abomination called:
 
>RELIGION
 
Religion is just obsolete. Like buggy whips.
 
In a pre-science world, it made sense. People didn't know anything about
how the world worked, so they made up stories, that did, sorta, kinda, help
them deal with the world and survive.
 
The need for such nonsense has passed. The next generation is looking to
be pretty much religion-free. This is a good thing.
 
Note, BTW, that the reason religions have been anti-gay, is precisely in
line with their mission to help the tribe survive (in a pre-science world).
As I've noted many times, the reason religion doesn't like gay is because
gay doesn't reproduce, and, in a pre-science world, reproduction is
everything. Reproduction is survival. Luckily, those days have passed -
thanks to science.
 
Obviously, this is also why religion is anti- any other form of birth
control, including abortion. Anything that reduces reproduction is bad.
 
--
If you think you have any objections to anything I've said above, please
navigate to this URL:
http://www.xmission.com/~gazelle/Truth
This should clear up any misconceptions you may have.
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 03 03:55AM -0800

On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 6:10:50 AM UTC-5, jacobnavia wrote:
> that didn't commit anything reprehensible. It is a piece of a wider
> abomination called:
 
> RELIGION
 
The Old Testament is no longer in effect under this new age of grace.
People are still subject to the Laws God gave man, but that's why
Jesus came to the Earth... to free us from the Law, to give us grace
and mercy, to save us from damnation and judgment from the Law.
 
The Law cannot save you. It can only condemn you. Jesus came here
to save us from the Law, from judgment, from the eternal punishment
for an eternal being bent on being rebellious, disobedient, always
anti-God, anti-truth.
 
It's not about religion under grace, Jacob. It's about the ongoing
continuous daily hourly minute by minute relationship with Jesus.
It's about forgiveness of sin, God's Love applied to our lives, in
that even while we were/are guilty of sin, God was not content to
leave us to die eternally under judgment. He came here as one of
us to shoulder the burden of our sin for us. He came here to make
a way out so we won't have to be judged. He came here to rescue us
from our folly, to restore what we lost in sin (our spirit nature),
and to dwell with us even while we are still here on this Earth.
 
Religion has almost nothing to do with Christianity. It is the
smallest component. It's about Jesus and our relationship (spiritually)
with Him that never ends.
 
Religion is a work.
Grace is a gift.
Religion has some value if properly applied (it keeps you focused,
disciplined, away from the snares of this world).
Grace changes you from the inside out by the new spirit nature.
It appears outwardly to be like religion, but it's different.
 
Religion is from the outside in, a work of the flesh / mind, by rote,
by brute force will over temptation and opportunity.
 
Grace forgives sin unto new spirit life, a complete rewiring from
the inside out. It's internal, not external. A new part of you,
a new ability to exist, comes online when Jesus forgives your sin,
as your judgment and condemnation are taken away.
 
Religion has done much harm. It's why Christianity isn't a religion.
People try to make it one because their flesh wants to be puffed
up with pride over their personal accomplishments.
 
True Biblical Christianity is a humbling, a realization, a coming
to know that "I can't do it on my own," that "I'm not good enough,
strong enough, that I can't undo my bad works with my good works."
 
It's the realization that you're a sinner, that you deserve punishment
because of how you've handled God's creation in sinful and destructive
ways, and that you are guilty of sin before God. A full humbling
of self.
 
You then come to Jesus asking forgiveness, receiving the same, and
being forever changed.
 
Where's the religion there?
 
Christians, those saved as above, because of the change, are called
to love people. It's actually a new Commandment Jesus gave us, to
love one another AS HE has loved us, teaching us that people will
know we are His disciples by our love.
 
So when you see people calling themselves Christians, and hating on
anyone, know that they are either lying, are immature Christians
still following after their flesh trying to do it by their own power/
religion and failing, or are caught temporarily in a flesh-focused
response and are not generally that way over time, but maybe they
were caught in a bad/weak moment.
 
The true Christian loves the sinner, teaches them the things of God,
is patient with them, desires for them to also be saved, prays for
them, helps them, reaches out positively toward them, and othet like
manner behaviors regarding them.
 
It flows naturally from the inside out, God's love for us dwelling
within us, welling up and overflowing out of us.
 
That's what Jesus brings to us... freedom from retaliatory hate,
from being evil, from harming people. Christians would rather die
themselves than harm another.
 
So when you see someone seeking to harm another, know that such a
person is not following after Christ or His teachings. They are
rogue, self-following, self-goal-seeking, and their own punishment
before God is in force. It will consume their soul on Judgment Day.
 
Grace is given to man to save Him from sin. That salvation from
sin literally takes our sin away from us, setting us free from the
condemnation and judgment we were under before. This brings our
spirit nature alive, and we change as the new man comes into life.
The old man (our flesh) is still with us and must be mastered. That
does take discipline, focus, obedience, effort. But God is there
continually, His Holy Spirit guiding us from within.
 
God doesn't want to judge anyone. He wants everyone to be saved
(even the sinners). It's why He makes salvation free, and commands
His disciples to go out into the world and teach all people about
Him.
 
All a person had to do to be saved is believe in your heart, confess
with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and you will be saved. He then
starts to work on changing your life from the inside out.
 
God is love, and that love is given to us in Jesus. He literally
gives us eternal life, a permanent Home in Heaven's paradise, restoring
us to what He intended for us before sin entered in and destroyed
everything.
 
--
Rick C. Hodgin
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 03 04:10AM -0800

On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 6:19:39 AM UTC-5, Kenny McCormack wrote:
 
> In a pre-science world, it made sense. People didn't know anything about
> how the world worked, so they made up stories, that did, sorta, kinda, help
> them deal with the world and survive.
 
There is nothing in modern science which contradicts Biblical teaching.
Man tries to explain things he finds in a way that removes God (evolution
instead of creation, chemical processes rather that a creator).
 
It is sin at work in us, denying God, rebelling against Him.
 
But if you look at the Biblical worldview truthfully and honestly,
you'll find that everything we find in nature aligns with the Bible's
teachings. Even the soft tissue and blood cells found in dinosaur
bones allegedly 65+ million years old.
 
God is real. He created the universe. He made it perfectly. Sin
us what's brought forth destruction, and God Himself came here in
the man Jesus to restore what was lost, to save us from His own judgment,
His own laws, His own requirements against sin.
 
Jesus separates all people, divides them into two groups: the savef,
and the damned.
 
The saved won't be judged for sin. They are set free from judgment
and enter Heaven alive. The damned are already dead, without life,
walking only in these flesh corpses until they pass from this Earth,
and then comes judgment in God's court. The sentence is: guilty.
The punishment: being cast alive forever into the lake of fire
where only torment and agony are your constant companions.
 
Jesus came to save us from that. His offer is real, free, eternal.
But not everyone will receive it. Some are so consumed by sin and
their love of sin that they'll deny Christ, deny His teachings, hate
Christians, teach and say all manner of false things against Christ,
sowing as much harm and death as their own rotting corpse can muster
up.
 
Their destruction is not lingering, and Jesus is able to save anyone
from their sin ... just for the asking.
 
--
Rick C. Hodgin
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 03 04:31AM -0800

Ephesians 2:8-9
 
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not
of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
--
Rick C. Hodgin
"Fred.Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>: Jan 03 03:10PM +0100

"jacobnavia" schreef in bericht news:q0kqjg$91h$1@dont-email.me...
>didn't commit anything reprehensible. It is a piece of a wider abomination
>called:
 
>RELIGION
 
It depends what you call religion. Better may be CONVICTION.
 
As soon as people have a conviction which make them think that people with
other convictions do not deserve respect, it happens. Even non-religious
convictions may lead to the death of other people. Think of the death of
many thousends religious people in atheistic regimes (Sovjet Union,
North-Korea, China, Cambodja). In the 20th century more people were killed
by the convictions of non-religious regimes than by religious regimes and it
still continues.
So, let's be careful with our own convictions. Nobody can live without
conviction and, of course, everybody thinks his own conviction is superior
to other convictions. The danger starts if our own sense of superiority
causes us to lose the respect for others.
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 03 06:41AM -0800

On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 6:10:50 AM UTC-5, jacobnavia wrote:
> > Jesus believed that homosexuals should be put to death (Leviticus 20:13).
 
> And for those that do not know what is written there here it is:
> [snip ... Leviticus 20:13] ... RELIGION
 
One thing to look at to see how true Biblical Christianity is
supposed to be is to look at the Orthodox Amish in the USA.
They have taken their "religion" to the extreme, rejecting
all modern conveniences, and doing things the "old way."
 
But if you look deeper at their culture, their community, they
engage with outsiders, have businesses in their communities,
are quick to respond in emergencies to help one another and
others.
 
There was a shooting in 2006 in an Amish school in Nickel Mines
in Pennsylvania. Ten Amish schoolchildren in the West Nickel
Mines school were shot, five of them were killed. The shooter
killed himself as police stormed the schoolhouse.
 
The Amish didn't condemn the murderer or the families of the
murderer. They reached out to them. The Wikipedia article
states, "The emphasis on forgiveness and reconciliation in the
Amish community's response was widely discussed in the national
media."
 
Christians are called to be teachers. It's "The Great Commission"
in Matthew 28:18-20, and is a calling for all believers to go
ye therefore into all the world and teach.
 
Christians are not called to judge. We do not judge. What we
do is teach those things God has told us He will judge. We
teach these things so that people will know what they are fac-
ing by remaining in sin. We teach these things so people will
know the truth, repent, and be set free from that judgment.
 
Judgment is not ours to give, for we also (all Christians) are
just as guilty of sin as everyone else, and we need forgiveness
just the same as everyone else.
 
Many Christians sin after they're saved, and even in some really
huge and shocking ways at times. But that's the battle we each
face in these physical bodies, and our goal is to pursue God in
spirit and in truth and to "mortify the deeds of the flesh" the
Bible says, to put to death sin at work in our physical members.
 
The enemy has dominion over our flesh. He can influence us in
ways we cannot be aware of or recognize. We simply respond to
our physical awareness of that input from our body. But not all
of it is our own input. Some of it is induced upon us by those
evil spirits so that we will move this way or that way, to remain
in sin, or keep a particular thought active.
 
God will set us free if we want to be set free. We have to seek
Him, to want earnestly and honestly to be set free.
 
God doesn't call any Christian to be hateful or harmful. That
is the residue of our former life in this flesh-only rising up
and warring against our new spirit nature. It is a difficult
influence to master, but it can be done with discipline because
God is greater and if we lean into Him and trust in Him and rely
upon Him and not our own strength, then do we have the victory.
 
It's when we try to go our own way that we are deceived, and do
all manner of harmful, hateful, sinful things, all under the
professed name and banner of being a disciple of Christ. Such
people are either damned, liars, not following the way at all,
or they are weak Christians who will turn around over time once
sanctification has more time to work on their life.
 
The influences of the old man (our flesh) are not to be discarded.
We are physically tied to these bodies, and Satan and his demon
imps have watched us since birth and recorded and discuss among
themselves what influences we are weak to, and they'll target us
where we're weakest to take us down because they want us turning
away from God, not saved, to be condemned as they are.
 
But God sees past all that, into our true heart, our true intent.
If He sees that glimmer of wanting to know the truth, to be set
free from the lies, of wanting to not be deceived by the enemy,
then He reaches in and makes it possible by influencing us with
His own Holy Spirit, which overrides our flesh and draws us beyond
our ability to countermand to the point where we come to the foot
of the cross in tears, repenting, asking forgiveness. He then has
legal license to forgive us, our sin is taken away, and we are
changed. He then begins working on us in our new spirit nature,
and the process of sanctification takes hold.
 
It is a literal transformation. The old person dies, and the new
person comes alive. The old way of understanding the world ends,
and the new way of understanding the world begins.
 
The natural-only man cannot understand this because they do not
have that spirit-nature input. But all who will be saved have
that little tickling, that little inkling of knowledge on the in-
side, something that is teaching them the truth of these words.
They may not yet be saved, but the day is coming.
 
If you can hear His call, rejoice and be exceedingly glad, and
jump up and down for joy, because it is God Himself reaching out
to save you from judgment, and to give you eternal life in His
own Kingdom paradise. Answer that call and see your life change
before your eyes. It will blow your mind away at how complete
the transformation is. You will literally say, "I would not
have believed it possible ... if it hadn't happened to me."
 
--
Rick C. Hodgin
Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com>: Jan 03 03:22PM

> North-Korea, China, Cambodja). In the 20th century more people were killed
> by the convictions of non-religious regimes than by religious regimes and it
> still continues.
 
Communism is also religion...
 
--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
"Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jan 03 08:02AM -0800

On Thursday, 3 January 2019 13:10:50 UTC+2, jacobnavia wrote:
> that didn't commit anything reprehensible. It is a piece of a wider
> abomination called:
 
> RELIGION
 
You go too far there IMHO.
Discriminating homosexuals (or more generally being evil and
unjust about whatever) is no way monopoly of Christianity or
religions in general. For example Nazi Germany persecuted and
put homosexuals to death and major communist countries
considered homosexuality as mental illness and same-sex
sexual activity between consenting adults in private as crime.
queequeg@trust.no1 (Queequeg): Jan 03 04:24PM


> and same-sex sexual activity between consenting adults in private as
> crime.
 
It is still considered a crime if these adults are relatives.
 
--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lSzL1DqQn0
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 03 11:37AM -0500

> Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> wrote:
>> and same-sex sexual activity between consenting adults in private as
>> crime.
 
There are many places where sodomy is still a crime in 2018. It's a
law influenced by Christianity from our past when people still placed
value on God's influence in their lives.
 
Do you know how significant Christianity was in the formation of this
nation (USA)? It was so integrated, so foundational, so fundamental,
that they didn't even codify it into law directly. There is just this
mountain of evidence of its influence in everyone's thinking, in the
way people moved naturally in society.
 
Even many of the "godless" back then had more moral fiber than most
devout mainstream Christians do today. Satan's influence in our so-
ciety is so prevalent ... when real Christianity shows up people think
it's so radical as to be the result of a nutcase lunatic, rather than
someone truly regenerated by the Living Spirit of a Holy God.
 
--
Rick C. Hodgin
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>: Jan 03 04:51PM

On 03/01/2019 12:10, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> you'll find that everything we find in nature aligns with the Bible's
> teachings. Even the soft tissue and blood cells found in dinosaur
> bones allegedly 65+ million years old.
 
The soft tissue and blood cells found in those dinosaur bones was later
shown to be foreign contamination, i.e. it wasn't dinosaur. Now re-adjust
your world-view you fucktard: the Earth is billions of years old.
 
 
> God is real. He created the universe. He made it perfectly.
 
Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I
dismiss your god.
 
/Flibble
 
--
"You won't burn in hell. But be nice anyway." – Ricky Gervais
 
"I see Atheists are fighting and killing each other again, over who
doesn't believe in any God the most. Oh, no..wait.. that never happens." –
Ricky Gervais
 
"Suppose it's all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I'd say, bone cancer in children? What's that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a
world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say."
"Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jan 03 09:01AM -0800

On Thursday, 3 January 2019 18:36:03 UTC+2, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> >> and same-sex sexual activity between consenting adults in private as
> >> crime.
 
> There are many places where sodomy is still a crime in 2018.
 
Note that it is 2019. Yes, in several Muslim countries homosexual relations
are crime. They also kill animals (like dogs and horses) for homosexuality.
 
> It's a
> law influenced by Christianity from our past when people still placed
> value on God's influence in their lives.
 
Indeed ... Muslims are last followers of your kind of Christian
values.
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>: Jan 03 12:27PM -0500

On 1/3/2019 12:01 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>> value on God's influence in their lives.
 
> Indeed ... Muslims are last followers of your kind of Christian
> values.
 
Why does Islam have a following similar to that of Christianity? It's
because Mohamed could not get people to follow his religion in the beg-
inning. So, he began to introduce lots of similar aspects to his reli
gion as the Jews had, so he could get converts. He also began to offer
to give them the spoils from raids and attacks.
 
1400 years of bloody Islamic history in a few minutes. 270 million
dead around the world, and at a time when you couldn't kill them with
machine guns and bombs, but this was hand-to-hand bloody combat, and
killing people by the sword:
 
"Must Watch: 1400 Years of Islamic History in a Few Minutes"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guXBTgAxhIw
 
We have history that teaches us the true nature of things. We also
have political movements which seek to suppress history and alter it
so we cannot know the past. This has happened in America recently
with the condemnation of the General Lee flag from the South during
our Civil War. People in power don't want to know or have people to-
day place value on why the South sought to secede from the union (it
was because they wanted stronger states rights and state's power, and
weaker federal / central government authority, with slavery being the
main driving point, but that philosophy was rooted back to the very
foundation of our nation (watch the movie 1776, and read the Anti-
federalist Papers).
 
--
Rick C. Hodgin
"Öö Tiib" <ootiib@hot.ee>: Jan 03 06:39AM -0800

On Wednesday, 2 January 2019 20:09:40 UTC+2, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> how great it will be - but never actually produce anything. Because if you
> ever produce anything tangible, it will a) never be as good as what you're
> talking about and b) actually never be any good at all.
 
I wasn't about his life philosophy. I was merely suggesting that if he really
has serious things to deal with then it is counter-intuitive to hang here
discussing his CAlive constructs.
 
> programming. It's all the same scam.
 
> Think about typical religions. Think about what they talk about vs. what
> they actually produce. The difference couldn't be starker.
 
I live in Estonia. Here religious organizations actually are not
annoying at all. They try to be nice, do organize various acts
of charity towards poor and events of culture like classical
music concerts in churches. It works with some (less than
third of people here define themselves as believers of
something) but most people are irreligious. Our world is
ruled by couple large countries and those are usually lead
by utter assholes. Fortunately mortal but then replaced by
different assholes. Believing anything else is likely silly and
possibly existentially dangerous superstition.
 
> themselves in the headlines, the whole enterprise comes crashing down.
> There's nothing as uninteresting as yesterday's garbage. You've got to
> keep coming up with new garbage to keep the sheep enthralled.
 
Indeed, every organization that wants to be popular should have
some sort of (at least semi-plausible) vision. Rick is often like
clumsy parody of that. His blocks in OP of this thread sound
like bad parody of similar language features, for example (quite
sensible) "guard" and "defer" blocks of Swift. So if he has some
serious issues to solve then better he does not waste time on
such hobbies too much.
 
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